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Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] "voting" privileges
Kevin THANK you for being that formidable of a communicator via this thread. Your action enables open conversation on to what this ecosystem could/ought to do next via open exchanges. :)

My take: 

jakartaee/jakarta.ee repo has 11 contributors, 327 commits & 1 release.

jakartaee/specifications repo has 17 contributors, 367 commits= activity: 3 issues & 11PRs  


A reminder of what currently is listed as rules of engagement below plus commentary. 

When the EFSP was introduced last year, page 5 stated "What's the big Deal?" 
image.png
With the YOU that mean the Contributor and verbs: guides & allows togetherness/ leveling individuals cooperation without entitlement- entitlement is always something to watch for as it is a noisy killer of potential awesomeness & fun collaboration. 
Anyone who signs the has the opportunity to be that signature on defining the rules/processes as releases require such contributors mind-sets. That is stated on page 9 "start with the EF development process"

After the Jakarta EE 8 release, the Development Process requires adjustments to be inclusive & broaden its welcoming to DOERS without Leads/ known as todays' facilitators. 

image.png
The future of EE4J and all its projects depends on ruthless adjustments and the understanding that what currently is is meant to be hammered out without fear. Failing fast, failing openly & choosing to rebuild can only be done with an ecosystem that chooses to prioritize itself first. It is irrelevant where we are, EF or who are the Strategic members. You, that single you-- matter, as such-- if you working via the repos, YOU are worthy of the merit to voice your thoughts via the respective forums without expecting to be known as "persona non-grata"

Working in OSS with individuals who think often the same most often leads to cemented the status quo which leads to lack of betterment and growth.  We- the active community here, have chosen to be better than that. Otherwise Java EE wouldn't be today Open Sourced. As such, lets drop what currently is/adjust/fail fast/try stuff. 



On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 11:25 AM Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxx> wrote:

I was about to mention that myself, so thanks Emily for doing it

 

The minutes are already published.

https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/ee4j.jakartaee-platform/who does not list you Emily btw, but it seems corporate members can also have others in the call, or would it require an explicit committer vote for Emily first?

 

Many of these votes like in other WGs and committees happen during the call, e.g. I assume “DECISION: Big Bang is the stated direction” was voted on like that?

 

Giving every EE4J committer a vote would mean, they should be allowed to join each of these calls. Maybe some people like Markus might have more time to do that, especially those who are full time employees of member companies like IBM, Tomitribe, Oracle or Payara do to some extent, I personally cannot afford to join more than one or two such one hour calls per week, especially if they are before 5pm local time like the platform call.

 

Is the voting in the call the only on intended, or are there other votes by email (I am a committer and so far did not see one) or in a different way?

 

I think those are important questions, which types of votes are conducted so it helps understand if every committer (under the EE4J umbrella) may vote on certain aspects of the platform or that might end up as an overkill?

 

Werner

 

From: Emily Jiang
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 19:53
To: jakartaee-platform developer discussions
Subject: Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] "voting" privileges

 

I think we need to go back to answer Kevin's question now.

On our Platform Dev call on Tuesday (minutes soon to be posted here:  https://eclipse-ee4j.github.io/jakartaee-platform/minutes/minutes.html), we discussed who should be eligible to vote on the Jakarta EE 9 content proposals.  We decided that only thecommitters on the Platform projectwould be eligible.

 

On the call, I thought committers include all EE4J projects. From what you listed here, it only includes the platform project committers, which I think it is a bit light. Personally, I will agree with: One idea is to expand our eligible voting pool to include any committer on any of the EE4J Specification projects.

 

I think the above idea makes a lot of sense, as the committers will be affected by the voting result and they need to execute the plan accordingly. It is much better to involve the group in the discussion, instead of leaving them out.

 

Emily

 

 

On Thu, Nov 14, 2019 at 4:46 PM Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi,
On our Platform Dev call on Tuesday (minutes soon to be posted here:  https://eclipse-ee4j.github.io/jakartaee-platform/minutes/minutes.html), we discussed who should be eligible to vote on the Jakarta EE 9 content proposals.  We decided that only thecommitters on the Platform projectwould be eligible.

But, on second thought, I'm wondering if that's sufficient.  The Jakarta EE 9 roadmap that we're trying to get agreement on affects all of the Jakarta EE components, not just the platform.  I know we discussed that the reps on the Platform should be representing their overall interests (including components) and not just the Platform.  But, is that sufficient?

On yesterday's Jakarta EE Updatecall, there was discussion about how much work it is to Jakarta-ize the Specifications.  And, we talked about the work required to do the javax->jakarta package rename (spec, api, tck, compatible impls, etc).  Markus presented and discussed these topics on how they relate to the JAX-RS effort.  Markus is not directly represented on the Platform project -- that is, he doesn't work for or with any of the committers.  He is driving much of the work for the JAX-RS effort.  How do we ensure that voices (like Markus') from all of the Component features are heard and counted when we make the decisions for Jakarta EE 9?

One idea is to expand our eligible voting pool to include any committer on any of the EE4J Specification projects.  I have no idea on how easy it would be discern or filter the various votes, but that seems to be a more equitable means of voting.

Or, we can fall back to our original premise to trust the committer reps on the Platform project to take into account all of the various component's views when they cast their vote.

Thoughts?

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
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--

Thanks
Emily

 

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