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Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Transitioning Jakarta EE to the jakarta namespace

I went through last night and tabulated all the opinions people have expressed here directly so far for the past month. I did this because I wanted to see the big picture myself and because I believe it is also the right thing to do especially from the perspective of people in the community that have taken the time to weigh in personally.

Here is what I found.

Proposal 1 - "Big Bang": 82%
Proposal 2 - "Incremental": 18%

The actual tabulation is at the end of this email. I also took out direct stakeholder opinion as an exercise (but I don't see a need to show those results here). The numbers become even more skewed (and yes, I appreciate the fact that these are the people that will wind up doing most of the work and taking most of the real risks).

These are the exact same patterns I have seen on this issue for this entire month, especially while having one-on-one conversations with actual Java EE users. To boil it down to a single sentence: people are very wary of what is going to happen if they need to deal with a platform that is constantly causing them to refactor for the foreseeable future. No matter how smooth we say all this will be, they would rather deal with the refactoring just once and get back to a platform they consider inherently more stable than any other alternative.

I hope this helps and we arrive at the right decisions for the right reasons. I continue to hope for a bright future for the technology I have spent the majority of my work and personal life enjoying contributing to and working with.

I really don't have much else to add.

Reza Rahman
Principal Program Manager
Java on Azure

Please note that views here are my own as an individual community member and do not represent the views of my employer.

Proposal 1 - "Big Bang": Ryan Cuprak, Reza Rahman, Rudy De Busscher, Jorge Vargas Garcia, Jorge Alejandro Cajas, Martijn Dashorst, David Heffelfinger, Mark Struberg, Steve Millidge, Carlos Andres de la Rosa, Corneil du Plessis, Josh Juneau, Ivan St. Ivanov, Sebastian Daschner, Jonathan Gallimore, Dominic Bachner, Richard Monson-Haefel, Guillermo Gonzalez de Agaero, Anthony Vanelverdinghe, Jens Katterheinrich, Rhuan Rocha, Emmanuel Bernard, Markus Karg, Peter P. Lupo, Aislan Nadrowski, Thomas Andraschko, Cody Lerum, Mauricio Coria, Steve Millidge, Silvio Silva, Dennis Gesker, John Hogan, Ralph Soika, Wesley Jackson, Bill Shannon, Edwin Derks, Mert Caliskan, Manik Magar, Mike Love, Hamed Hatami, Pavel Pscheidl, Dillon Fearns, Skyler Bexten, Andy Bailey, Atem Nkengasong, Jean-Francois James, Michael Redlich

Proposal 2 - "Incremental": Hildeberto Mendona, Mark Little, Nathan Rauh, Eduardo Asafe, BJ Hargrave, Emily Jiang, Ian Robinson, John Clingan, Kevin Sutter, Lilian Benoit

On 5/6/2019 7:23 PM, David Blevins wrote:
[Contents of this email represent discussions of the Jakarta EE Specification Committee over the last several meetings.  The statements here have been reviewed by and represent the voice of the Jakarta EE Specification Committee]

As announced in the Update on Jakarta EE Rights to Java Trademarks[1] post on Friday, future modification of the javax namespace will not be allowed.  While this is not what was envisioned when Jakarta EE started, in many ways this in our best interest as the modification of javax would always have involved long-term legal and trademark restrictions.

To evolve Jakarta EE, we must transition to a new namespace. The primary decisions we need to make as a community and industry are how and when. Given all delays and desires on everyone’s part to move forward as fast as possible, we would like to have this discussion openly as a community and conclude in one month. It is the hope that in one month a clear consensus emerges and can be presented to the Specification Committee for final approval.

In an effort to bootstrap the conversation, the Specification Committee has prepared two proposals for how we might move into the new namespace. These should be considered a starting point, more proposals are welcome. No final decisions have been made at this stage.

The guiding principle for Jakarta will be to maximize compatibility with Jakarta EE 8 for future versions without stifling innovation.

Other proposals should incorporate the following considerations and goals:

  • The new namespace will be jakarta.*
  • APIs moved to the jakarta namespace maintain class names and method signatures compatible with equivalent class names and method signatures in the javax.* namespace.
  • Even a small maintenance change to an API would require a javax to jakarta change of that entire specification. Examples include:
    • Adding a value to an enum
    • Overriding/adding a method signature
    • Adding default methods in interfaces
    • Compensating for Java language changes
  • Binary compatibility for existing applications in the javax namespace is an agreed goal by the majority of existing vendors in the Jakarta EE Working Group and would be a priority in their products. However, there is a strong desire not to deter new implementers of the jakarta namespace from entering the ecosystem by requiring they also implement an equivalent javax legacy API.
  • There is no intention to change Jakarta EE 8 goals or timeline.
  • Community discussion on how to transition to the jakarta namespace will conclude Sunday, June 9th, 2019.

It is envisioned binary compatibility can be achieved and offered by implementations via tooling that performs bytecode modification at either build-time, deploy-time or runtime. While there are open questions and considerations in this area, the primary goal of the discussion that must conclude is how do we move forward with future modifications to the APIs themselves.

Proposal 1: Big-bang Jakarta EE 9, Jakarta EE 10 New Features

The heart of this proposal is to do a one-time move of API source from the javax namespace to the jakarta namespace with the primary goal of not prolonging industry cost and pain associated with the transition.

Were we to take this path, a compelling approach would be to do the namespace rename and immediately release this as Jakarta EE 9. Additional modifications would be put into a Jakarta EE 10 which can be developed in parallel, without further delays.

  • Some or all Jakarta EE APIs under javax would move immediately into jakarta as-is.
  • Any packages not moved from javax to jakarta could be included in Jakarta EE, but would be forever frozen and never move to the jakarta namespace.
  • Jakarta EE 9 would be refocused as quick, stepping-stone release, identical to Jakarta EE 8 with the exception of the javax to jakarta namespace change and immediately released.
  • Jakarta EE 10 would become the new release name for what we imagined as Jakarta with only minor impact on timeline.
  • Work on Jakarta EE 10 could start immediately after rename is completed in the GitHub source and need not wait for the Jakarta EE 9 release to actually ship.
  • One-time coordination and cost to the industry, including; conversion tools, users, enterprises, cloud vendors, IDE creators, platform vendors, trainers and book authors.
  • Easily understood rule: everything Jakarta EE 8 and before is javax, Jakarta EE 9 and after is jakarta
  • Consistent with the javax to jakarta Maven groupId change.
  • Highest degree of flexibility and freedom of action, post-change.
  • Industry would have the opportunity to begin digesting the namespace change far in advance of any major new APIs or feature changes.
  • Largest upfront cost for everyone.
  • Specifications that may never be updated would still likely be moved.
  • Decision to not move a specification is permanent and therefore requires high confidence.
  • Which specifications, if any, would we opt not to move?
  • Would we take the opportunity to prune specifications from Jakarta EE 9?
  • Do we change the language level in Jakarta EE 9 to Java SE 11 or delay that to Jakarta EE 10?

Proposal 2: Incremental Change in Jakarta EE 9 and beyond

Evolve API source from javax to the jakarta namespace over time on an as-needed basis.  The most active specifications would immediately move in Jakarta EE 9.  Every Jakarta EE release, starting with version 10 and beyond may involve some javax to jakarta namespace transition.

  • The most active APIs would immediately move from javax to jakarta
  • APIs not changed or determined by the community to be unlikely to change would stay in javax
  • Jakarta EE 9 would be a mix of javax and jakarta packaged APIs
  • If a change was needed to a javax API post Jakarta EE 9 for any reason, that API would transition from javax to jakarta.
  • Jakarta EE 10 would be a mix of javax and jakarta packaged APIs, but a different mix than Jakarta EE 9.
  • At some point down the road, Jakarta EE xx, it may be decided that the migration from javax to jakarta is “done” and the final APIs are moved.
  • Cheaper up front cost and reduced immediate noise.
  • No need to move specifications unless there is an immediately visible benefit.
  • Potential for less impact from API change overall.
  • Prolonged coordination, cost and complexity to industry affecting conversion tools, users, enterprises, cloud vendors, IDE creators, platform vendors, trainers and book authors.
  • Use of restricted javax namespace prolonged.
  • Frustration of “always changing” packages may deter application developers and become a permanent perception of the brand.
  • Difficulty in remembering/knowing which Jakarta EE release an API was moved. “Is Connector javax or jakarta in Jakarta EE 11?”
  • Difficulty in keeping the industry in sync.
  • New implementations may find themselves having to deal with the javax to jakarta transition, unable to avoid legacy costs and therefore decide not to enter the space.
  • Transitive dependencies to other specifications may make incremental change difficult or impossible.
  • Restrictions on what Java SE implementation can be used for certification
  • Do we start small or start large?
  • Which APIs would immediately need to be changed?

Out of Scope

The following are very important community discussions, but do not require a decision in the time-frame allotted:

  • Roadmap or release date for any Jakarta that would contain new features
  • List of specifications that may be deprecated, pruned or removed from Jakarta, if any
  • Specification text around backwards compatibility requirements, if any
  • What profiles should be defined

However, depending on the path chosen, some of these topics may require immediate resolution before the chosen path can be executed.

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