| Re: [jakarta.ee-wg] Minutes of Jakarta EE Steering Committee Meeting July 31 |
Minutes of Jakarta EE Steering Committee Meeting July 31
Attendees:
Fujitsu: Kenji Kazumura
IBM: Kevin Sutter
Oracle: Will Lyons
Payara: Steve Millidge
Red Hat: Scott Stark
Tomitribe: Richard Monson-Hafael
Martijn Verburg
Ivar Grimstad
Eclipse: Mike Milinkovich
Review of Minutes from Prior Meeting
Minutes from July 17 meeting were approved.Review of Mike Milinkovich's e-mail (attached)
Minutes of July 24 sent out earlier today - we will review next week.
See attachment
- Oracle supports the notion of enabling Jakarta EE 8 branding based on passing the contributed Jakarta EE TCK tests. We believe we should continue to work on the Java TM agreement and other agreements to enable the Java EE technologies to evolve.
- Tomitribe would like to see the existing Java EE specs evolve, including using the javax namespace.
Red Hat is concerned about using the Jakarta EE 8 branding in a manner that may give a false sense of security about future evolution.
- Payara agrees that evolving the javax namespace is essential.
- IBM is OK with using the Jakarta EE 8 branding, but no further branding of future Jakarta EE versions without evolution of the EE technology.
- Fujitsu is OK using contributed tests to obtain Jakarta EE 8 compatibility, but not Java EE 8 tests. Jakarta EE 9 must including evolution of the "EE" technologies.
- Mike solicited comments on the notion of creating a spec process that would enable incorporation of "other" (non Java EE) technologies, prior to enabling a spec process that extends what we currently have.
- IBM's reaction was that the community requirement is focused on extending what we have vs. incorporating "other" (non Java EE) technologies.
- Tomitribe generally agreed with the IBM response.
Oracle will review with its Legal department a) whether there would be any objections to Eclipse Foundation enabling use of the Jakarta EE 8 brand based on passing the contributed Jakarta EE TCK tests, and b) are the IP rights granted to the end users of the technology.
Budget for 2019
Review the following:
Proposed Budget summary
Marketing Program Spend: $ 985,000
Build and Test Infra: $ 125,000
Legal Fees: $ 100,000
Headcount Spend: $1,245,000
Total $2,455,000
Jakarta EE Working Group Funding Proposal
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jWc531d1VxsW88JERrCLOEzxvs-ILVhqa6b4C0N6Nl0/edit#heading=h.30qclvx9b86v
Straw Man 2019 Program Plan
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1r3cmx8ukDfcbBIo1uEWZ_VM_0kw0akF_YLzeZ_U7Qwg/edit#slide=id.g3e472e64b2_2_0
Marketing Committee Draft Budget
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iJ1nid_rTCz0lqgQJTz-lFkVeLsPzVBgb-edsbPCTmI/edit#gid=0
Original SWAG at a 2019 Budget
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZziY5sABRDHCgFPox9jXXCJm1LJrf8rF0SLvL21rc9Y/edit
Apportionment Discussion
How will funding be apportioned among members.
Doodle Poll for Budget Meeting
https://doodle.com/poll/f54w2eiap9hciyp4
Meeting will be scheduled Th 10-11 AM.
The majority of the meeting time was spent on the topics above. There was not enough time to cover the topics below.
Spec Committee Update
No time for detailed updates
Marketing Committee Update
No time for detailed updates
PMC Update
No time for detailed updates
Recruitment of new members; Elections
Open issue - will there be an additional PMC representative on the Steering Committee.
No time for detailed discussion of this topic.
Status of Oracle Contributions
No time for detailed updates
The high-level status of EE4J projects is unchanged from last week
• 39 project proposals have been created
• 36 project committers and resources have been provisioned
• 26 of these projects have initial contributions provided to the Eclipse IP team
• 25 of these projects have the initial contribution pushed to the Git Repository
Oracle has another "batch" of contributions in Oracle's internal approval process.
Any update from Tanja and Ed regarding delivery schedule? Tanja's link from last time pasted below.
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1ZoEf7lvzBOB1PIq7q7JdFbTvTlAgzCkvIiEDH-CYJL4/edit
Topic from prior meeting - discuss what to market based on Java EE 8 certification of Eclipse GlassFish.
Planned Jakarta EE certifications
No time for detailed updatesWhat other app servers, besides GlassFish can we expect on Jakarta EE 8 - get input from Steering Committee.
Wildfly - name clarification needed from RedHat ?
IBM Liberty
Fujitsu
Payara - ?
Weblogic - ?
TomiTribe - ?
Legal Documents
No time for detailed updatesAll agreements currently in Oracle Legal review. Hoping to progress on TCK Agreement ASAP.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Jakarta EE Steering Committee <jakarta.ee-steering@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Bcc:
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 16:33:11 -0400
Subject: [jakarta.ee-steering] Strawman Proposal for Progress in 2018
_______________________________________________All,
As I am sure many of you have noticed, progress on the new specification process has been slow. Unfortunately, I don't think that situation is going to change soon. This is a problem for all of us, as Jakarta EE needs to start demonstrating progress if developers are going to believe that this initiative is real.
At the moment our plan of record is to:
- Release Eclipse Glassfish 5.1 certified as Java EE 8 compatible by the end of September.
- Establish a new Jakarta EE specification process and release a Jakarta EE 8 specification by December that is identical to Java EE 8. As part of that we would also release Eclipse Glassfish 5.2 certified as Jakarta EE 8 compatible by the end of the year. Note that this requires that we have completed an arrangement with Oracle that will allow us to create specifications using the existing spec names (e.g. "Java Message Service").
At this moment, I don't think that the second deliverable is realistic in 2018.
I would like to propose that we rethink our approach in order to deliver on the elements of Jakarta EE that we can as soon as possible. A couple of key concepts would include:
- We decide as a group that any product which achieves "Java EE 8" certification can also be labeled as "Jakarta EE 8" certified. The Jakarta EE trademark and logo is our property. We can decide how it is used.
- We narrow the focus of version 1.0 of the Jakarta EE spec process to focus on new specifications, rather than migrating the existing Java EE ones. That means that while Oracle is definitely involved, there is far less complexity related to their interests in protecting the Java trademark via the existing spec names and javax namespace. So instead of focusing on some very complex migration issues, let's focus instead on creating a spec process that would be attractive to MicroProfile, and JNoSQL, and the like. It seems unlikely that in the short term we are going to have the permissions that will allow us to evolve the Java EE 8 platform. So if we're going to demonstrate any ability to innovate it is going to have to come from other sources.
With the above in place, our new plan of record would be to:
- Release Eclipse Glassfish 5.1 certified as Java EE 8 compatible, and labeled as Jakarta EE 8 certified as well by the end of September.
- By <<insert date here>> release a Jakarta EE 9 specification which is [Java EE 8] + [MicroProfile | JNoSQL | ??]. We would avoid the entire concept of backwards compatibility with Java EE specifications by simply saying that if a product is certified as Java EE 8 certified and it passes the TCKs for the additional specifications, it can be certified as Jakarta EE 9 compatible. Note that I think this means that no changes whatsoever will be possible to the javax namespace. We could discuss whether some innovation could occur within Jakarta's namespace although that would not be backwards compatible, which is obviously an issue.
I am looking forward to discussing this on the steering committee call tomorrow.
Thanks.
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