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Re: [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] MicroProfile TCK Process
Good question. The EFSP process is far more formal than what MP has now and I believe it would slow down MP's progress and decrease agility of that effort.  You could not have had as many releases as you have had with MP already if it was constrained by a formal specification process like the EFSP.  That's not good considering the primary reason MP was created was to break out of the slow release cycle that Java EE was suffering.

Jakarta EE has to have a formal spec process to appease Oracle and the millions of organizations that have relied on it being a standard.  The MP doesn't carry that baggage.  

Becoming a standard is not a guarantee of success.  Just look at Spring.  No formal standards process acts as an umbrella to the project yet it's very popular.  Or look at DCE or CORBA, very formal process with lots of specifications and very little adoption.  You could nit-pick those examples apart, but the general idea is that standards and wide-spread-adoption are not synonymous. 

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:09 PM Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Why do you not want Jakarta EE to be independent and agile?

Richard Monson-Haefel wrote on 12/20/18 2:24 PM:
Mike,

You have alluded to this problem before - that MP will have to adopt the EFSP - but I don't recall you providing an explanation. That would probably go a long way in helping folks like me understand why other projects suddenly have to adopt the EFSP.  I'm all for it with Jakarta, but MP has been doing fine without a formal process and I would like to see it remain independent and agile.  Sorry if this gets people's knickers in a kerfuffle but its a valid point of view considering how little we know about your position on the subject.

Richard

On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 2:49 PM Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2018-12-20 11:54 a.m., Richard Monson-Haefel wrote:
Given that the MP has not planned to adopt the EFSP,  I wonder if Microprofile should move to a new host?  It might be the best solution for all.

I don't find that to be a very constructive comment given that you haven't even heard what our concerns are. And the issues that we are seeing are not going to go away if it's hosted somewhere else. Success comes with greater responsibilities.

Plus, as Steve pointed out we already have an example of a MicroProfile spec entering the JCP process. So there is already an entirely community-led precedent to follow.

Perhaps we should down tools on the email and discuss this in real time in January.



On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:40 AM Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2018-12-19 12:36 p.m., Scott Stark wrote:
We should be looking at elements of the MicroProfile process that seems to work and attempt to accommodate the possibility of MicroProfile using a future EFSP, but I'm not convinced that it is a requirement, and potentially not even possible.

Scott, et al,

I guess I was being too subtle in my previous email on this thread. In our opinion, simply maintaining the status quo is not an option. Adoption of the EFSP by MicroProfile is a question of when, not if.

The existing specification process and licensing regime for MicroProfile is causing the Eclipse Foundation serious concerns. We do not feel that the status quo is an acceptable long term scenario. This is the result of both the success in the industry that the specifications are achieving, and what we have learned as an institution as we created the EFSP.

Happy to explain more details on a call.


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Mike Milinkovich

Executive Director | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.

mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

@mmilinkov

+1.613.220.3223 (m)



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