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Re: [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] [jakarta.ee-community] [ee4j-community] Eclipse Jakarta EE TCK commiters
Richard Monson-Haefel wrote on 09/18/2018 01:48 PM:
You are correct about this being a PMC issue but it does impact the specification committee as well.

more below...

On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 12:45 PM, Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I wasn't too worried about the referenced conversation.

This doesn't seem like a spec committee issue, probably more of a PMC issue, but...

I am curious as to whether any group is providing leadership on issues of this sort, or whether this is going to be done entirely bottom up.

As far as I know, there is no leadership in this area yet.  I suspect it may be a bottom up type of thing but perhaps someone can at least get the ball started. Perhaps this should be brought to the PMC so that the seed of a project can be started sooner rather than later.
We already have the jakartaee-tck project, why isn't that the right place?


Does the PMC want to allow each spec project to choose or create its own test harness for its tests?

To start, I think there should be a single TCK project which will define the type of test harness used in the future as well as helping to execute the existing TCK.

Once the ground rules for how to create a new TCK are established including how all of them can be run independently and/or in combination then perhaps subprojects could be started for specific APIs.
It would be great if someone would create such ground rules.

 

Do vendors testing implementations want to run multiple different test suites in order to test their implementations, or should there be an integrated "platform" test suite that will run tests for multiple specs using a single test harness configuration?

There should be a platform which supports running individual tests on APIs (e.g. JPA) as well as Jakarta EE integrated tests.
That's how the current TCKs work.

 

Should there be any required consistency in the output of a test suite to determine whether the test suite passed or failed?

Yes.
 

Will the CTS/TCKs be used as-is for Jakarta EE 8, or will spec projects be allowed to split out their tests and provide them in some different way for Jakarta EE 8?

We will have to use the existing CTS/TCKs for Jakarta EE 8 - hopefully without any required modification.  We should start an effort to build a new test harness platform independent of that but with at least the same test coverage. If that new test platform can be finished before Jakarat EE 9 is ready to ship (sometime in 2019?) than it can be used for the first time with that. If the new testing platform is not ready, then it should target the release of Jakarta EE 10.  It may be necessary to develop a new test platform while maintaining and updating the existing CTS/TCK.  Not ideal but probably necessary for at lest Jakarta EE 9.
Coordinating that will be a challenge for someone.

 

Will projects be allowed to add tests for Jakarta EE 8, or will Jakarta EE 8 be constrained to testing only what was tested by Java EE 8, ensuring that all Java EE 8 products can also be certified as Jakarta EE 8?

It should only test what is already tested by Java EE 8. We want to evolve the existing CTS/TCK as little as possible until it can be replaced by a new test platform.
People are already talking about adding tests.  Should someone tell them to stop?

 

And I'm sure there's other questions I haven't considered yet.  Will any group be responsible for envisioning these sorts of questions and providing answers in advance?  Or will these issues only be dealt with on demand as they come up, and if so by what group?



Richard Monson-Haefel wrote on 9/18/18 2:01 AM:
Apparently my attempt to attach the thread of discussion didn't go so well.  Here is a link to the start of the thread in the jakarta.ee-community mailing list archive.


On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 8:13 AM, Richard Monson-Haefel <rmonson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi All,

Attached is a thread discussing the development of a new test harness for Jakarta EE.  I think this is critical to the future success of the platform. 

We should consider this project as a new addition to the EE4J project. We don't need to oversee it closely but there is a lot of enthusiasm and perhaps by the end of 2019 or 2020 it will be ready for use by the specification process.  

If folks agree we can reach out to the people on the thread and get the ball rolling.
Richard

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Cheng Fang <cfang@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [ee4j-community] Eclipse Jakarta EE TCK commiters
To: jakarta.ee-community@eclipse.org


I've worked with JTHarness and other parts of cts before, and would be happy to help migrating it.

Cheng

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 3:56 PM Scott Marlow <smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 6:31 PM Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

(Resending to new mailing list address.)

Splitting the CTS project so that each individual TCK is relatively independent is a non-trivial (but not impossible) task.  It should definitely be considered, but it would help to have someone lead that effort who is already familiar with the CTS and the JT Harness framework on which it is built.  Does anyone want to volunteer to do that?

Until that is done, updates to the tests for each API will need to be done in the CTS repository.  We'll definitely need contributors from each API project to update the tests as the API evolves.  If you want to help with that, you should start becoming familiar with the JT Harness framework.

Is help needed to get the CTS migrated over to Jakarta?  I assume we will still use ant (which is a huge improvement over the earlier need for multiple make tools needed on some platforms :-)

Scott
 
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