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Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [Jakarta EE Working Group Charter requires attention] Committee Calls "private" vs "public" + Misc

I've been to both long enough to know it's mostly organizational stuff and often "boring" to others, there are also votes in those calls in some cases which is why at most all the non members would have to be muted many times causing difficulty.
Finding out if there's a quorum if really 250 non members ever showed up would be extremely difficult, I am not aware Zoom could tag or color code attendees?

Recording it, why not, and it can be analyzed how many viewers or listeners that kind of recording has.
Maybe the platform call would be easier and more attractive, but isn't that already open to others?

Also I am not an IP lawyer or so, but if anything is discussed that requires to sign the ECA or Jakarta WG agreement first, how would you check that in Zoom?ūüėá

Werner

Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb am Sa., 8. Aug. 2020, 01:29:
Hey Werner & fellow Jakartees, 

The JCP EC calls privacy was required as it was the body in charged of the review of all the JSRs releases including the TCK releases.  With the last being the TCK release JavaTM Platform, Enterprise Edition 8 (Java EE 8) Specification

Most of us know that to gain access to Java EE 7 or Java EE 8 meant that a company had to pay Oracle a yearly fee to gain $$$ for access to the licence...  So you see, there lies the difference. 

When Java EE moved to the EF, it made the $$$ and access to the TCK public. We have yet to untap the potential of Jakarta EE as an Open Source Project. 
For everything in open source, ~~~ keep anything in the dark for too long, it will surely die/get destroyed/hurt others/be hijacked, WORST  get abused because that is what happens when NOT PUT INTO THE LIGHT. 

Now about costs.  The Jakarta EE budget doesn't suffer from budget when it deals with tools prioritizing, it owns it nicely. 
Zoom allows up to 300 people to attend any call with the Business licence & 1000 with Enterprise. Zoom allows any meeting to have no chat capabilities & voice access, permitting anyone to join without disrupting the body agenda. 

Thanks for the follow up that enables this response Werner, 

Amelia Eiras 
Tribe: http://tomitribe.com      https://tribestream.io   
OSS:  http://microprofile.io     https://jakarta.ee


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:36 AM Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Amelia

Why are the JCP EC calls private except for two or three cases per year? And why did you not change that since you joined the EC?

Also while I was still in the EC I remember the public calls drew barely half a dozen JCP members, maybe a few more listened to the audio recordings. 
I can't speak for Eclipse Foundation or the EMO and infrastructure teams, but at least a public Committee Call with potentially dozens or even hundreds of bystanders even if they were muted seems unreasonable and would put a high toll on the Eclipse conf call infrastructure. A normal Zoom session can hold up to a certain number of people, if that needs to be increased, the cost of the subscription for Eclipse would also go up.

There are public calls all the time, at least monthly, I frankly find that very transparent and sufficient compared to what we had in the JCP.
If technically doable, I personally would not see a reason against recording the calls either as MP3 or on YouTube, so people who really want to watch that every 1 or two weeks can do it, but I don't see a need to have people join the calls and put a burden on Jakarta EE, Eclipse Foundation and especially the paying members who would have to compensate that in the end.

Regards,

Werner



On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 7:51 PM Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hola Jakartees, 

With August, new opportunities/new challenges/ more contributing to Jakarta EE could bring many of us closer! 

As such, I ask: 

Why are the Jakarta EE Committee calls still private in 2020?

At the beginning when the Jakarta EE Charter was being drafted in Feb 2018 (please see below the Carter history), those of us involved understood that the need for private calls on the 3 committees was required due to the on-going Java EE legal trademark conversations between Oracle & the EF.  Everyone knows the end-result of those talks by reading Jakarta EE Rights to Java Trademarks published on May 3rd, 2019

The vision everyone has in mind were to establish as much transparency, accountability, ownership, and earn-protect trust by having public calls.  By everyone, I mean everyone currently listed under the Strategic Membership,  who was also a member of the initial Organizations supporting the initiate under the Proposal WG lifecycle (step 2 for the creation of a WG under the EF). We agreed that the calls will be converted to public as soon as the legal talks were completed.

Well, they were finalized on May 2019. It has been +1 year and I am wondering why those meetings are still private today.
Only the 6 orgs can vote to change what current is. It is that easy based on what was agreed on the past. 
If something change, lets explain what change and what keeping what currently is serves best for the Jakarta EE project and its community. 

The current private Body calls violate the Jakarta EE Vision and Scope listed as number #7: 
  • Establish and drive a funding model that enables this working group and its community to operate on a sustainable basis.
How can the Community of Contributors help establish and drive a "funding model" that is sustainable if the Community is not invited into the room to own such a conversations? 

I recommend that the Steering committee body address this issue of the Charter via this open forum. 

-----

If anyone cares to read the Jakarta EE Charter, the brainstorming bare minimum for such those Body meetings is still written as follows for:
 
Steering Committee Meetings
  • Charter¬†requirement:¬† at least twice a year
  • 2020 Reality: every Tuesday 9:30am-10:30am PDT
Specification Committee Meetings
  • Charter requirement: at least once per quarter
  • 2020 Reality: twice per month on Wednesdays 9am-10am PDT
Marketing Committee Meetings
  • Charter requirement:¬†at least once per quarter
  • 2020 Reality: twice per month on Thursdays 8am-9am PDT
  • Jakarta EE Release phase: ¬†the body meets every week.¬†

----

Tracing to understand what went down when Java EE was moved into the Eclipse Foundation - zoom out:

During the Jakarta EE WG lifecycle status: 
  1. Opportunity= private> Conversations btw Oracle and EF 
  2.  Proposal=public> gather-together into the ONE group potential Members & Contributors alike with a minimum of 3 Organizations
  3.  Incubation=public > within the success criteria check list, the requirement of a minimum of 5 Organizations goes
  4. Operational =public 

The Jakarta EE WG Charter section Membership lists five Bodies:  Strategic, Enterprise, Participant, Committer, and Guest.
Charter revision is as follows:
image.png

Amelia Eiras 
Tribe: http://tomitribe.com      https://tribestream.io   
OSS:  http://microprofile.io     https://jakarta.ee
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