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Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [jakartaee-platform-dev] Jakarta EE 9 Release via latest published minutes [Nov 5th, 2019]
Hey Kevin, as usual, it is a pleasure to exchange words with you. :) 

Me wondering openly and sending above write up that lead to your follow, hopefully enables others to speak up. 
The call out is explicit to Jakartees' users & coders alike. 

The power-of-preparation, POP, from this community cannot be underestimated or deferred. We have now. 
The project requires individuals whose arguments are hard to ignore or push around, those who makes us understand our weakness are the most valuable contributors. 
To those, you are the Jakartees who will most likely shape/reshape the Release Process. 

 Note: you don't only have to be a part of the current listed WG but ideally you would join b/c you see its strength and value.  

In that sense, Jakarta EE 8 release is a poor example of what the Jakarta EE Release path ahead looks like. This is just my voice as a Jakartee.  Jakarta EE 9 is ambiguous b/c everything we are doing is new, as such it might show parasitic aspects and hurt those who are not at the table today. BUT, none restrict this community voices, so do please join.  






On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 2:03 PM Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi Amelia,
First, the Spec minutes question...  It's not as bad as it looks...  The Oct 23rd meeting was not held due to EclipseCon Europe.  The Oct 30th meeting didn't have quorum, so no official meeting notes were kept or approved.  The Nov 6th meeting minutes were approved at last week's meeting.  Not sure why they weren't posted yet, but it could have been due to some vacations...  I'll ping them to find out.  (We normally run about one week behind on approval of minutes.)

Back to the Jakarta EE 9 release...  The resolution posted by the Steering Committee is what the Steering Committee would like to see in Jakarta EE 9.  This is not cast in stone, but it gives us something to shoot for.  The resolution was passed onto the Platform Project.  And, we have been requested to come back with a Jakarta EE 9 Release Plan by Dec 9 (the 10th is our meeting).  This is what we have been working through with the discussions on the Platform mailing list and the weekly Platform calls.

I do agree that many of us have customers still using older Java EE versions.  And, yes, some of these older technologies are being considered for removal in Jakarta EE 9.  But, I don't think we're rushing the decision.  Most of the proposed technologies to be pruned have been marked Optional in past Java EE releases.  So, pruning some of them as we move forward with a new Jakarta EE Platform makes sense.  Moving some of these technologies forward to the Jakarta namespace would just be lots of busy work -- updating the Specs, APIs, TCKs, and Compatible Impls for Specs that will not evolve in the Jakarta namespace is probably not worth the effort.

Remember, existing implementations can continue to use the Java EE technologies and javax namespace.  As an example, if an implementation wants to continue to provide a solution for J2EE Deployment, they are welcome to do so.  What we are attempting to do is to define a Jakarta EE Platform to build upon.  And, if we can shed some weight of older Specs and APIs that will not evolve for Jakarta, then that's great.

Now, there are some exceptions to this marked "optional" rule.  For example, JSR 109 Enterprise Web Services was not marked optional previously.  We have been discussing whether this should be pruned even if it was not marked "optional" in the past.  So far, all of the participants (minus one) have been comfortable with this decision.  As we discussed on the call today, we're not going to come to unanimous decisions.  We don't come to unanimous decisions for MicroProfile, we're not going to be able to do it for Jakarta EE.

If you or anybody else has reservations about this pruning or any of the Jakarta EE 9 planning, please speak up.  But, be specific on which aspect you have a concern with.  We do need to make progress on the Jakarta EE 9 Plan and we'll be making some tough decisions before the Dec 9/10 comeback.

Thanks!

---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter



From:        Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        Jakarta Dev <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Jakarta EE Community <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        11/26/2019 15:23
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] [jakartaee-platform-dev] Jakarta EE 9 Release via latest published        minutes [Nov 5th, 2019]
Sent by:        jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx




Nov. 5th Published Minutes: focus 9 Release

Given the current threads on Jakarta EE 9 release, I am reminded of the latest minutes published, link above, about the Resolution written about release 9. Lets focus on:

image.png

It seems that today's exchanges are given more priority to rushing and avoid considering the long term effects of pruning something we have no data to know if it will be the right choice to cut out of the next Jakarta release. 

Should I be a company using Java EE 6/5, I would be worry about the current transition of this project ecosystem. 
We - via rushing, seem to forget that up until now, we have collected no data from users to prune stuff with greater understanding of why cutting something has more pros than cons. 

 Also, I see that some of the retrospective feedback provided and link to minutes above has yet to be implemented. Lastly, there are no Spec minutes shared sinceOct 16th  That worries me as many (not strategic members) use the minutes to keep up to date. 

Brainstorming openly 
Amelia Eiras 
twitter.com/ameliaeiras
Tribe: http://tomitribe.com      https://tribestream.io   
OSS:  http://microprofile.io     https://jakarta.ee_______________________________________________
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