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Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Thoughts on JakartaEE
There is another talk tomorrow about Microprofile, the better Spring Boot? at JCON. Comparing Microprofile to Spring Framework is probably unfair because it contains a lot of features you don't find in Microprofile. And never should.

Although it did not make it into the Microframework Battle and Spring Boot was mentioned as the leader of the pack, there was a mention of it in the session. 
Microframework is what the name already suggests. 
There are advantages like having two or more implementations of an API for several modules. In Spring especially the framework the API interface and implementation are usually inseparable. 
A strong contender also to Spring Boot is Micronaut. Which is polyglot allowing to mix Java, Groovy and Kotlin. I think Spring also started with that. 

I'm not sure if Microprofile has an aim at multiple JVM languages or should? GraalVM could make it easier of course.

Werner 

Stephane Maldini <smaldini@xxxxxxxxxx> schrieb am Do., 26. Sep. 2019, 00:00:
I'm not sure I understand the need to constantly compare to Spring but when I see https://www.slideshare.net/EmilyJiang3/cloud-native-programming-model-comparison, there is a bunch of inappropriate comparisons or borderline wrong facts given. What's the end goal ? Inferring MP is a better Spring ? Fair enough but play on the unique MP strengths, not the features that have been commoditized for years now.

We use JakartaEE and we're happy to promote the spec but I'm not sure how it is productive to keep referring to the work we do in the way this slides deck does. We all just craft tools to help other craft products or tools as well, in the great scheme of things, none of us is really significant so lets not waste energy with this kind of stuff.  I happen to think all of our combined work benefits all the JVM.

Just my 2cts, 

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 6:49 AM reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks for pointing this out. The whole premise behind Jakarta EE was that it would become a more nimble, but still credible open standard. The same of course goes for the promise that Jakarta EE was to become a trusted standard for cloud native Java as a unifying and stabilizing element the same as Java EE had been for so many years for server side Java.

If the truth is that those stated objectives are no longer really honest, that is what we should be clear to consumers about and give them an informed choice of where they would like to place their continued trust.

Reza Rahman
Principal Program Manager
Java on Azure

Please note views expressed here are my own as an individual community member and do not reflect the views of my employer.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 9/25/19 9:25 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Jakara EE community discussions <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Thoughts on JakartaEE

Actually I guess that might change with Jakarta EE because it should not take 2 or 3 years any more between Jakarta EE updates even if it is only some spec. 

Adam Bien <abien@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> schrieb am Mi., 25. Sep. 2019, 13:22:
Cen,

absolutely. I also consider Jakarta EE 8 as the stable base, the "boring OS" with less frequent releases.
For me MicroProfile is the reflection of current e.g. CNCF, also upcoming, standards with faster release cadence.

So far, I always used them together,

--adam
> On 23. Sep 2019, at 18:47, cen <cen.is.imba@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> After reading a ton of mailing list material and blog posts I'd like to share some thoughts on JakartaEE.
>
> I use a lot of JavaEE and MP daily and contribute to one of MP framework implementations.
>
>
> The javax naming is very unfortunate but won't really be a big problem for us microservice users since we can update one service at a time. Other than refactoring costs I don't see anything problematic, I think application server users will have much more trouble.
>
> MP was the best thing that happened to JavaEE because it allowed us to take the stable and mature modules from JavaEE and combine them with modern approaches that were missing in the spec. Seeing how successful MP has been so far, I wouldn't merge the projects but collaboration between projects to make specs more interop is welcome. Duplicating specs for roughly the same things would be the major fail.
>
> I have mixed feelings about JakartaEE adding a ton of new features to attract new users. While some new features would be welcome, I see the core modules pretty feature complete. I am not sure people would switch massively to JakartaEE for any reason but I do know existing developers will probably stay if platform feels alive which was not the case for the past few years. As an existing user I am more concerned about the state of some important reference implementations with long standing bugs which are an annoyance in day-to-day work. Looking at bugs.eclipse.org - Eclipselink for example screams of abandonware although now that all projects are on github contributing is thankfully much easier. I already had some positive experience contributing to upstream RI so that's feels good.
>
>
> Best regards, cen
>
>
>
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--
Stephane Maldini | Project Reactor Lead, Spring Engineering | San Francisco | Pivotal

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