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Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Am i right with the representation in the diagram?
Nice work on the document so far.  This will certainly be beneficial to the community.


On Aug 16, 2018, at 10:05 AM, Suren Konathala <konathalasuren@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thanks for the inputs. 

Document: As of now "view only"
I like the idea of community chiming in with comments and some actually adding content.

Few points to discuss (Please add your thoughts/comments to below under each point with your name like [Suren: ] , so it's easy when we summarize/decide)
A) I was thinking the first priority for us is to SCOPE this document. What we want to include, not include, 

B) Why are we drafting this document?
[Suren]
To clarify the developer community on:
1. Understanding how JEE related projects (taken over from Oracle) will be governed/managed/released by Eclipse foundation
2. Clarity around terminology, naming conventions, new project names popping and what they mean (EE4J, Jakarta EE, etc). 

C) Where and/or how this will be used
C(a) Will it a web page on Eclipse foundation site? 
C (b) Or a detailed document linked to a web-page?

D) Focus only on "Enterprise Java" projects, especially those that are taken over from Oracle/JEE.

We can add more to the above.. or to the document itself instead of emails. 

-Suren




On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 7:39 AM Richard Monson-Haefel <rmonson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I would like to contribute to this article

On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Tanja Obradovic <tanja.obradovic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
+1 with Amalia on the approach, "view only" access for all, and enabling comments per request.

Please share the document link with the group. 

Best,
Tanja

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:59 PM, Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hola from SM Jakartees, 

My recommendation is for the document to be public yet “view only” and via this thread,  the many of you who would like to collaborate state clearly intent [ownership and responsibility to follow through]  to trigger Jakartees’ “comment access”.  

Using MP content as an example shows that a little bit of structure helps keeping with deadline ( not yet set) and healthier collaboration, OSS! 

— feedback


On Aug 15, 2018, at 1:46 PM, Guillermo González de Agüero <z06.guillermo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Great! Would you open it to everyone with only comment permissions?

El mié., 15 ago. 2018 22:03, Suren Konathala <konathalasuren@xxxxxxxxx> escribió:
I have a draft ready in a google doc (with random notes/thoughts). We can refine as we add more text/scope. 
Let me know, who want to contribute, i'll share the document. 

-Suren

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 12:34 PM Tanja Obradovic <tanja.obradovic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello,

I think we are all in agreement, once we create a document (a google document may be the best solution) and have a version we are happy to share with others we'll publish on the agreed link.

Best,
Tanja

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 1:18 PM, Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
+1 that is why I asked which place or medium it was meant for.

Werner


On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:16 AM Martijn Verburg <martijnverburg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
+1 this diagram will be of immense value if it's front and centre at both the EE4J site and the Jakarta.ee site.

Cheers,
Martijn


On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 09:30, Mrinal Kanti <design@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Shouldn't this be posted as some sort of wiki instead so that this can be evolved over time. IMO blog posts tend to become outdated sooner or later. Also, that would clarify the usage rights if someone needs to modify/contextualize it for their own presentations.

-Mrinal

On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 12:41 AM, Tanja Obradovic <tanja.obradovic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi All,

yes, I think a blog on this is a great idea, and we can all contribute to it. Suren, Richard or anyone else if you can start on a first draft, share with us and we can review and contribute.

Also, in September I plan to start with regular Jakarta EE community calls and this can certainly be one of the topics and agenda items (if the blog is not done by then). You will hear from me more on this early September.

Best Regards,
Tanja

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 2:23 PM, Richard Monson-Haefel <rmonson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I was going to write a blog post on this a while back but it was so tangled (from my perspective) that I never finished it. This is helping a lot as it brings to a fine point the relationships which were anything but clear before. I would love to help with the blog article - I can review and help with wordsmithing but I don't think I can take the lead or co-lead the effort.

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Wayne Beaton <wayne.beaton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
It's more accurate to say that the working group influences and promotes (though, again, the marketing folks get confused when you use this term) the open source projects (especially the work of the Specification Projects). There is no direct governance relationship between the working group and any open source project. The specification process will likely define touch points during the development/release cycle where the Specification Committee has some formal role to ensure that they are in sync with the project team (we might argue that this is a governance role).

The Jakarta EE Platform project will have its own releases. It will consume the artifacts produced by releases of other projects. It does not "Manage, Release" any other projects.

The EE4J PMC provides governance for all EE4J Projects. This includes spec and implementation projects.

IMHO, the IP Team doesn't belong on this diagram. It's the wrong level of granularity. The EMO provides a number of teams and services that support the open source projects, working groups, etc. I think that they're all implied for the purposes of this diagram.

HTH,

Wayne

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 12:55 PM, Suren Konathala <konathalasuren@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
1. Other projects (lower one) i meant was project that are not governed/managed by JakartaEE, like Eclipse Glassfish, Grizzly, Jersey, Metro etc (below screenshot). Am i right?

<Screen Shot 2018-08-14 at 11.51.15 AM.png>

2. I had no plans to document about the org, was for my personal understanding. But looks like this is becoming a good article for a blog :-) 

I'm interested if anyone can join me in documenting what we were trying to summarize here for the benefit of the community. This should clear up some questions developers/community may have.

-Suren
 

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:40 AM Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
One of the "Other Projects" block (the lower one I'd say) should be totally independent of Eclipse Foundation or EE4J.
To represent projects that have nothing to do with Eclipse like CDI, Bean Validation, etc.

Btw what article, blog, book etc. are you creating this for?



On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 6:36 PM Suren Konathala <konathalasuren@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Awesome.. that's a great summary. When i started this, i wanted to visualize the organization/management of Java EE based projects at Eclipse in 1 slide. With all of your valuable input, this is turning out to be a great slide.

<OrgOfJavaEEProjectsAtEclipseFoundation.png>

-Suren


On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:20 AM Wayne Beaton <wayne.beaton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Close.

It's more accurate to say that the EE4J PMC provides oversight, guidance, best practices, governance, etc. for all of the open source projects that are part the EE4J Top Level Project. That is the Top Level Project is part of the organizational structure, and the PMC is the actual group that provides the services. I may be splitting hairs (it's common to conflate the PMC and the TLP).

The PMC provides governance for all projects, regardless of what the projects actually do. So this includes both specification and implementation projects. It's also the PMC that oversees the release process (with help from the EMO).

The Jakarta EE Working Group (via the Specification Committee) is responsible for taking the specifications produced by the open source projects and designating them as "official" (I really want to say "promote", but the marketing folks get confused when I do that). They are further responsible for managing the process by which implementations of the specifications are certified.

The Jakarta EE Platform is just one of the specifications. It happens to be what is referred to as a "profile", so it's a special specification, but there are other specifications that are also special. 

There are only three committees in the Jakarta EE Working Group: Steering, Specification, and Marketing and Brand. The Eclipse IP Advisory Committee is not part of the working group.

The easiest way to think about is it that the PMC works at the "committers and projects" level, and the working group works at the "companies and business" level. 

TL;DR: The open source projects, under the supervision of the PMC, assemble the various artifacts (spec document, API, TCK, implementation) and hand them off to the Spec Committee to designate as official and implement the certification process.

Wayne

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:54 AM, Suren Konathala <konathalasuren@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.. Updated the org

<OrgOfJavaEEProjectsAtEclipseFoundation.png>

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 10:39 AM Steve Millidge (Payara) <steve.millidge@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

For more confusion the IP/Legal committee is an Eclipse Foundation Board committee not a Jakarta EE committee.

 

IMHO;

 

Jakarta EE Working Group governs the Jakarta EE brand and what can be called Jakarta EE.

EE4J governs all the projects under the EE4J top level project. These things aren’t a simple overlap.

 

See an article I wrote a while back https://dzone.com/articles/how-decisions-are-made-jakarta-ee-and-eclipse-micr things may have evolved since then!

 

Steve

 

 

From: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx <jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Werner Keil
Sent: 14 August 2018 16:20
To: Jakara EE community discussions <jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Am i right with the representation in the diagram?

 

Being in the Specification Committee I know, the term "Reference Implementation" is disregarded in favor of "Specification Implementation". It is still a standard implementation by Eclipse Foundation projects (or some could also be elsewhere e.g. at Apache Foundation) but not a Reference Implementation in JCP terms.

 

There is also at least an IP/legal Committee which currently has a hard time in certain terms of legal questions like opening up the TCK, etc.

 

 

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 4:24 PM Richard Monson-Haefel <rmonson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This has always been a bit confusing. However, I would say that the Jakarta EE Working Group governs the platform and its specification/api projects.  The EE4J governs the reference implementations (e.g. Glassfish) under its umbrella (some are not owned by eclipse).   And the PMC governs the EE4J. As to weather or not the PMC governs the Jakarta EE Working Group has never been entirely clear to me since the PMC formed it.

 

Also missing are the Jakarta EE Specification Committee and Jakarta EE Marketing Committee which are themselves managed by the Jakarta EE Steering Committee which none of which is really managed by the PMC as they are industry groups.   

 

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 3:47 PM, Suren Konathala <konathalasuren@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Wanted to summarize the project/groups organization?

 

OrgOfJavaEEProjectsAtEclipseFoundation.png


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