The statement
The PMC's role of "oversight" is to guarantee all subprojects stick to the EDP rules.
Is not the only role of the PMC. The top level PMC has 3 roles of which that statement is 1. The second is “leadership for the projects that fall
under their top level project” and the third is “maintaining the top level charter”
The appropriate statement in the charter here is
“EE4J establishes commonality between its constituent projects by defining an integrated set of standards using common processes and common
compatibility requirements. EE4J provides compatibility for existing and new users by providing compatibility across Java EE 8 and EE4J versions.”
So yes this is within the role of the PMC.
Steve
From: ee4j-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx <ee4j-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Markus KARG
Sent: 31 October 2018 18:42
To: 'Bill Shannon' <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx>; 'EE4J PMC Discussions' <ee4j-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-pmc] git tags naming convention?
There is another misunderstanding. The PMC's role of "oversight" is to guarantee all subprojects stick to the EDP rules. It does not imply overriding
self-governance of the committers at free will. Certainly you can ask for their advice in any other direction (just as you could ask anybody else), but without powers to enforce it, it is simply in vain as it is not enforceable.
As long as the PMC participates in discussions that fall into the self-governance of the subprojects without clearly marking the answer as personal
opinion or being non-authoritative, I doubt that all PMC members have fully understood where the PMC's powers end and the self-governance of the sub-projects start. And as long as that is the case, I will be the scapegoat that reminds everybody.
BTW, I'm pretty sure the PMC is mature enough to tell me directly when they have the impression that they can leave incubation state.
-Markus
From: Bill Shannon [mailto:bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 19:18
To: Markus KARG; 'EE4J PMC Discussions'
Subject: Re: [ee4j-pmc] git tags naming convention?
The PMC is supposed to provide oversight for all the projects, that's why I'm looking for their advice. If the PMC wants to turn this into a poll of all Committers, that's fine with me.
And I'm sure the PMC already knows well what they can and can not do, you don't need to keep reminding them. I've seen no evidence that they've been acting against the EDP. If you see such evidence, you should take it up with them directly.
Markus KARG wrote on 10/31/2018 11:04 AM:
Bill,
once again you misunderstood my postings. I really do not tell you what *you* can do or not, I tell *the PMC* what they cannot do according to EF rules.
I also want better inter-project collaboration, but *the PMC's* mailing list is the wrong place for reaching other projects. BTW, there is no such group like "ourselves" in the EF, there only is "the public", "the committers" and "the PMC members".
In fact you have my full support for better inter-project communication among the committers to reach all consistency wanted by committers. What I like
to express simply is that the PMC is de jure not the right entity to reach this concensus, as the PMC has neither the power to enforce consistency in your questions unless technically needed, nor is it the inter-project communication area. So what will be
the *effective* outcome? What you apparently strive for will de facto only be reached by asking the committers of all projects, not anybody else. You reach absolutely not what you want if the PMC says "yes, good idea" but some committers simply do not follow
because they possibly have a different opinion.
Besides that, I will keep telling what the EDP says as long as I have the impression that it is either not understood or intentionally ignored.
-Markus
From: Bill Shannon [mailto:bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 18:19
To: EE4J PMC Discussions; Markus KARG
Subject: Re: [ee4j-pmc] git tags naming convention?
Markus, you really are not helping by continuing to repeat your mantra.
Some of us want to do things in a consistent way across the community. Unless your goal is to
force every project to be different, please just accept that you're allowed to do things differently in your projects, but some of the rest of us might want to do things the same way across multiple project, on purpose. We're not going to tell you that
you have to do things the same way, but please don't tell us that we can't conspire among ourselves to do things the same way.
Thanks.
Markus KARG wrote on 10/30/2018 11:07 PM:
I know Bill and others don't like to hear it anymore, but unless there is an urgent need to decide this topic by the PMC, according to the EDP this
is up to each project to decide or even let the committer himself decide.
-Markus
I agree. We use annotated tags when releasing MicroProfile releases. I think we should continue that practice with Jakarta EE.
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
ee4j-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 10/30/2018 01:28:54 PM:
> From: Raymond Auge <raymond.auge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: ee4j-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 10/30/2018 01:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-pmc] git tags naming convention?
> Sent by: ee4j-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> I think having recourse to see _who_ created the tag (annotated
> tags) is more useful than not.
>
> - Ray
>
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 2:23 PM Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> (Apparently no one cares about this stuff but I'll ask anyway...)
>
> Assuming the PMC recommendation is to use just the version number as
> the tag, do people prefer git lightweight tags or git annotated tags?
> Ivar Grimstad wrote on 10/01/2018 10:43 PM:
> We have not defined any conventions for EE4J for this. Personally, I
> like naming the tag as the version number of the released artifact.
>
> Should we define EE4J-wide conventions or just leave it to the projects?
>
> Ivar
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 12:58 AM Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Is there an EE4J-wide convention for how to name the git tags for
> releases of various sorts?
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