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Re: [ee4j-pmc] [jakarta.ee-community] EE4J PMC Meeting Minute #20
The PMC does not operate in a vacuum. The PMC monitors project activity in an ongoing basis (the PMC members are committers on many project themselves). If project activity has raised flags in the past, I expect that the PMC to take a harder look at a project before giving approval.

Since all of these projects are still very new and the PMC is very involved in all them, I don't expect very much discussion around this first round of reviews. Please bear in mind that this whole process is also new to the PMC and they're also engaging in their first round of reviews. This will evolve over time as the PMC gets its footing.

FWIW, here is an example of an exchange between the IoT PMC and a project for a release review. Even there, though, these reviews are rarely cookie cutter. Again, the IoT PMC is actively engaged with their projects and so the sorts of things that they "pick on" during a release review vary according to their experience with the project. Many other requests are met with a simple "+1".

I look forward to working with you, the rest of the EE4J project community, and the PMC to sort out how we add an appropriate amount of rigor to this part of the process.

Wayne

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 2:02 AM, Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
As with so many things, the best result is somewhere in the middle.


Markus KARG wrote on 09/12/2018 10:37 PM:

PMCs (hence PMC members) have a clear charter described in the EDP. The review is not their free will.

 

This cannot be done by a bot as it is rather impossible to check issues like "followed the EDP process". But on the other hand, the PMC is bound to public discussions and public decisions, and to the charter found in the EDP. So there has to be a checklist OR the PMC proofs that the official PMC review result is not the arbitraty will of the members but really and solely the EDP compliance was reviewed (or what else was reviewed).

 

So currently each PMC member votes by his free will and is not bound to anything and not even must discss it with other PMC members publicly? Is that what the EF wants PMCs to work like?

 

-Markus

 

 

From: Bill Shannon [mailto:bill.shannon@oracle.com]
Sent: Donnerstag, 13. September 2018 01:08
To: EE4J PMC Discussions; Markus KARG
Subject: Re: [ee4j-pmc] [jakarta.ee-community] EE4J PMC Meeting Minute #20

 

So, you want to replace the PMC with a bot?  :-)

I expect different PMC members to have different things that are important to them, and thus make their own independent judgments as to whether a release should be approved.

But yes, it would still be good to publish some guidelines for what the PMC expects out of a project.  It won't be complete or algorithmic or definitive, but it will provide the projects some guidance.

Markus KARG wrote on 09/12/18 10:36 AM:

Thanks Wanye for this kind explanation! :-)

 

But I literally meant what I wrote: Does the EE4J PMC have a checklist to follow in the release review?

 

If yes, I would like to see it published. If no, I wonder how the EE4J PMC guarantees that the job you describe is performend by all PMC members in the same way. The risk I see is that some PMC members could do more different checks than other PMC members, but we should guarantee that all EE4J subprojects go through the exact same PMC review steps always, independent of the actual PMC member performing the checks.

 

Thanks

-Markus

 

From: ee4j-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ee4j-pmc-bounces@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Beaton
Sent: Mittwoch, 12. September 2018 15:00
To: EE4J PMC Discussions
Subject: Re: [ee4j-pmc] [jakarta.ee-community] EE4J PMC Meeting Minute #20

 

Every PMC determines their own process and checklist for reviews. 

 

I suspect though, that you're more interested in understanding what we expect projects to do to prepare for a release review. We do have a checklist, but it's heavily rooted in our history of most of our projects building Eclipse Platform Plug-ins. If you ignore the bits about bundles and plug-ins, though, it's a pretty good start (further generalizing this checklist is on my to do list). 

 

The EMO does a lot of the actual checking, but we lean on the PMC to assess that the project is working within their scope, is following the rules of the EDP (the open source rules of engagement in particular), and is just generally doing the right sorts of things to develop community. Again, it's up to the PMC to determine how to assess this. 

 

We purposely keep the formality to a minimum. A project team representative asks the PMC for approval of their release and corresponding Release Review materials on the PMC mailing list. The EMO waits for any related discussion to settle; once it's clear that the PMC has given their approval, we move forward with the review. 

 

Once we have the approvals that we require (PMC approval of the release and IP Team approval of the IP Log), we schedule the review. Reviews conclude after one week of being open for community feedback. The date that we assign to a review is the end date of the community feedback period. We schedule those dates on the first and third Wednesdays of every month.

 

HTH,

 

Wayne

 

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Is there a documented process or check list regarding what stuff actually the PMC member must check in a release review?

-Markus

 

 

From: jakarta.ee-community-bounces@eclipse.org [mailto:jakarta.ee-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ivar Grimstad
Sent: Dienstag, 11. September 2018 13:51
To: EE4J PMC Discussions; Jakarta EE community discussions
Subject: [jakarta.ee-community] EE4J PMC Meeting Minute #20

 

Hi all, 

 

See https://www.eclipse.org/ee4j/minutes/?date=2018-08-28  for the minutes from the latest EE4J PMC Meeting.

 

Ivar

--

Java Champion, JCP EC/EG Member, EE4J PMC, JUG Leader


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--

Wayne Beaton

Director of Open Source Projects

The Eclipse Foundation




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--
Wayne Beaton
Director of Open Source Projects
The Eclipse Foundation

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