|Re: [ee4j-community] Community Control was Jakarta EE logo selection|
it seems you did not read my postly correctly: I never talked about money for committing or contributing. I only talked about money for having a seat in a committee.
Anyways, my question was already answered.
Sometimes it's really difficult to understand you. Steve described that you don't have to pay anything to become a committer and subsequently to become a Jakarta EE committee member. I believe this answers your original concern.
There's no pay-to-play for community committers. Pay-to-play principle only applies to organizations that want to influence Jakarta EE and I think it's fair because organizations usually have money and profit from Jakarta EE in some way unlike independent community contributors.
Senior Payara Service Engineer
Payara Services Limited, Registered office: Unit 11, Malvern Hills Science Park, Geraldine Road, Malvern, WR14 3SZ
From: ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx <ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
fair enough, but it seems you misunderstood my initial claim: I did never say that one has to pay to contribute / commit, but that there is pay-to-play in the foundation's committees.
Anyways, I think everybody understood our different visions.
I am simply trying to provide facts for other readers on the list that it is simply not true that you have to pay fees to contribute or become a member of a committee or even the board of the Eclipse Foundation.
your long copy of the well-known facts simply reads like pure sarcasm from the view of the average individual contributor, and particular to me (as the addressee of your plea) as a committer to many open source projects since decades. You're just delivering excuses for the de-facto pay-to-play model of the EF, with a smug undertone that one may do all the work for free if not willing to pay the fees for having a seat in the "reserved-for-paying-members" committees. Any fee larger than a few bucks clearly is ruling out individuals (even committer members). My employer is tiny and does not benefit from EE4J or any other EF project at all. He will never pay any fees just for my personal interest in the Eclipse Foundation's several committees (like the EE4J spec committee in particular). Same for many other contributors / committers. And no, I do not see any proof that the majority does work for huge companies as you assume. Payara and Tomitribe make money with EE4J. Contributors typically do not.
An individual can contribute freely through the EE4J projects, they can raise issues, discuss on mailing lists, create PRs and contribute code. The projects are self governing and under the control of the group of committers that make up the project. Therefore if an individual wants to be involved in the technical direction of JakartaEE this is the way to do it. There are no fees to do this.
An individual can then be elected to be a committer on a project by the existing group of committers for the project under the governance rules of the specific EE4J project. This gives them write access to the repositories associated with that project including website, wiki and other documentation etc. There are no fees to do this.
An individual once a committer can become a committer member which is a formal individual membership of the Eclipse Foundation by signing the Eclipse Membership agreement. There are no fees to do this.
Now if an individual wishes to get involved with the governance of the foundation itself rather than the projects. They are free to stand for elections for any committee of the Eclipse Foundation including a seat on the board. Board membership is a formal board seat with all the fiduciary and legal duties of a full Director of the foundation. There are no fees to do this.
There are other classes of membership for corporations and these are all outlined here https://www.eclipse.org/org/documents/2018-01_Eclipse_MEMBERSHIP_AGMT.pdf with all their fee schedules, rights and responsibilities. Note there is not a “Vendors” membership class. An individual can also lobby their employer to become a member of the Eclipse Foundation at one of these membership levels and pay some fees to the Eclipse Foundation and become their corporate representative.
Payara and Tomitribe have joined the Eclipse Foundation as Strategic Members and have therefore paid these fees and acquired the responsibilities but we also gain the same rights as a big corporation paying much larger fees, this is laudable of the Eclipse Foundation.
Payara are small and likely much smaller than the employers of many individual contributors. Many of those employers will use the outputs of the EE4J project and the open source “vendors” for free while creating paid for software for their customers which is their right under the licenses. However Open Source software is not free to create.
Mike and his team have a specific recruitment drive to get corporations who are large users of what will be JakartaEE technology to become members and contribute both money and time. Please encourage your employer to do the same.
you misunderstood me.
1. Individual contributors CANNOT become members FOR FREE. Only COMMITTERs can become members FOR FREE. Not every contributor is a committer, even if his input is very valueable for both, the projects and the EF as a whole. Only CODE-contributors can become commiters, but input is not always code. If I wouldn't be a JAX-RS committer, I wouldn't have a vote without payment, independent of my knowledge and history in Java EE.
2. AFAIK all commiters will share ONE seat, but I might be wrong here. Will the committers really have the same amount of seats as the paying vendors?
BTW, I am already a committer member. Seems the PMC has no list of these?
I think you are wrong on a couple of points here.
1. Individual contributors CAN become members. I, for example is an individual contributor and a Committer Member and it does not cost me a penny.
2. As a Committer member, I can run for election for the Steering-, Specification- and Marketing Committees of the Jakarta EE working group. Still without paying. And with the same rights as the paying Influencer- and Participant member companies. They also have to be elected.
So, I encourage you to become a committer member (two docs to sign). It does not cost you anything other than the time you're already spending.
On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 7:25 PM Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Java Champion, JCP EC/EG Member, EE4J PMC, JUG Leader
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