| Re: [ee4j-community] Tomitribe Veto's Jakarta EE logo Design-- Biggest mess seen under EE4J |
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Today's Topics:
1. Tomitribe Veto's Jakarta EE logo Design-- Biggest mess seen
under EE4J (Amelia Eiras)
2. Re: Tomitribe Veto's Jakarta EE logo Design-- Biggest mess
seen under EE4J (James Roper)
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 01:09:31 -0700
From: Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [ee4j-community] Tomitribe Veto's Jakarta EE logo Design--
Biggest mess seen under EE4J
Message-ID: <D698C920-18ED-4F26-8B83-412410D32926@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Community,
As a Java community member, I am deeply disappointed we are here talking already about Jakarta EE logo designs under close doors? Why does it matter that I send this email?
It is not because I am a passionate Java Community member. This email exists because when I see BS taking shape, I cannot be a neutral bystander.
What is the logo design rush?
Jakarta EE Logo that has no skeleton I can refer to. Show it to me please team.
the actions behind this logo project are a freaking mess & a distraction from what a real Community does. Current actions, if not stopped and traced back are utilizing the trust by those +6K voters that care enough to help Java EE >Jakarta EE.
This current form on project is the WRONG method. Thus far in everything done to move forward Jakarta logo contest under private channels could have been avoided.
Personally, as a Java active community member I detest lack of transparency on anything OSS related.
As a Triber, I cannot & have not been a part of EE4J private mktg meetings b/c they serve no real purpose until healthier EE4J transparency is brought forth. Current ETA deadline April 24.
What we are currently seeing is not what a welcoming and re-constructing Community needs to set the foundations of a strong OSS home for java EE. Actions such as Jakarta EE logo, if it moves forward and not stops & retracts from how it became a thing, it will have negative consequences where only those initially involved will bare 100% of the success and failure.
?
Quick recap:
Java EE was renamed by volunteer voting Community to Jakarta EE at the end of Feb 2018.
How did we get from welcoming a great name like Jakarta EE as the replacement for Java EE to this thread https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ee4j-community/ <https://dev.eclipse.org/msg01104.html mhonarc/lists/ee4j-community/ > ?msg01104.html
Jakarta working group was announced to the Java Community via Eclipse on 3/9 https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jakarta.ee-wg/ <https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jakarta.ee-wg/ >
EE4J Marketing <ee4j-marketing@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ee4j-marketing@eclipse.org >> Private mailing list. STILL? Though conversations minutes are public, its access to those conversations continues to be private to anyone not in the list of Vendors that are part of the PMC. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kOREpqsUlU4cSZ- 0dxK2ImiMdI1a2oW3kPrkkSWHiKU/ edit#heading=h.1zf3hph3gzru
Disclosure? I am a Triber. Tomitribe has not been a part of any of those Mktg conversations. They shouldn?t exist until Jakarta mktg group is created & give access to anyone interested to join, share & be part of the changing waters.
Everyone in the Java community with good ideas must gain access & be welcomed to become part of the braid of what could be an amazing new branding home for Java EE, now Jakarta EE.
Major issue with current Jakarta EE logo contest is how its deadline 3/21 was decided and how project was just brought forth from private chats.
WTH entitles the PMC active in Mktg for Jakarta EE logo to even think doing so is OK?
Tomitribe didn?t vote or was consulted on why this project should be set forward. We will veto it then as we do now.
The total lack of project transparency between the PMC is infuriating to say the least. We don?t even try to communicate with each other.
If PMC included cannot carefully police and analyze how we get to where we are NOW on this design mess, I cannot even imagine how frustating those without access must feel.
Anyone who cares, own feedback- and do so hopefully in the open.
What comes next for Jakarta EE is not for EE4J PMC members to decide, but for each single of you, Members of the active Java EE Community to decide.
We are better than current mess. I want to see Jakarta EE logo be placed on hold until healthy transparency is brought to the Community via EE4J openness on April 24th. Until then, any work done thus far means and will lead to nothing. The grounds are shaky and it doesn?t reflect a true Community for the Future of Jakarta EE.
Amelia Eiras
https://twitter.com/ameliaeiras <https://twitter.com/ameliaeiras >
Tribe: http://tomitribe.com <http://tomitribe.com/> https://tribestream.io <https://tribestream.io/>
OSS: https://tomitribe.io <https://tomitribe.io/> http://microprofile.io <http://microprofile.io/>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 20:08:10 +1100
From: James Roper <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Tomitribe Veto's Jakarta EE logo
Design-- Biggest mess seen under EE4J
Message-ID:
<CABY0rKNJuS0bUuVQ2i4JjVbB7OWBOaZ_dOOzcrveuwQucm_QpA@mail. >gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I was under the impression that the marketing team was shortlisting a list
of logos, and would seek input from the community. That seemed like a
sensible approach to me, and seemed to be what is happening right now on
this very mailing list. An effective community is one that delegates
responsibility, putting trust in the right people to make decisions on the
communities behalf, not one that includes the entire community on every
decision.
I can't speak for the how the marketing is being run now, maybe the mailing
list should be public, maybe it shouldn't, but let's not forget what our
primary goals are here - under the JCP, Java EE had stagnated, now we need
to bring Jakarta EE back to the forefront of innovation for enterprise
systems. There's a lot that needs to be done before we can even start on
that task, we need to be publishing documentation and project information
on websites for example, and we can't do that without a logo. Everyone is
eager to get these ramp up tasks done, so we can move onto the real work,
to be able to start having solid technical discussions about where Jakarta
EE needs to go, what new specs are needed, how existing specs need to be
updated. The logo is important, but it seems there is already a team of 12
or so people working on that, why don't we trust them to make a good
decision so that we can quickly get to what really matters - the specs, the
technology, innovation.
On 20 March 2018 at 19:09, Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Community,
>
> As a Java community member, I am deeply disappointed we are here talking
> already about Jakarta EE logo designs under close doors? Why does it matter
> that I send this email?
>
> It is not because I am a passionate Java Community member. This email
> exists because when I see BS taking shape, I cannot be a neutral bystander.
>
> *What is the logo design rush?*
>
> - Jakarta EE Logo that has no skeleton I can refer to. Show it to me
> please team.
> - the actions behind this logo project are a freaking mess & a
> distraction from what a real Community does. Current actions, if not
> stopped and traced back are utilizing the trust by those +6K voters that
> care enough to help Java EE >Jakarta EE.
>
>
> This current form on project is the WRONG method. Thus far in everything
> done to move forward Jakarta logo contest under private channels could have
> been avoided.
>
> Personally, as a Java active community member I detest lack of
> transparency on anything OSS related.
> As a Triber, I cannot & have not been a part of EE4J private mktg
> meetings b/c they serve no real purpose until healthier EE4J transparency
> is brought forth. Current ETA deadline April 24.
>
> What we are currently seeing is not what a welcoming and re-constructing
> Community needs to set the foundations of a strong OSS home for java EE.
> Actions such as Jakarta EE logo, if it moves forward and not stops &
> retracts from how it became a thing, it will have negative consequences
> where only those initially involved will bare 100% of the success and
> failure.
>
> ?
>
> Quick recap:
>
>
> - Java EE was renamed by volunteer voting Community to Jakarta EE at
> the end of Feb 2018.
>
>
>
> - How did we get from welcoming a great name like Jakarta EE as the
> replacement for Java EE to this thread https://dev.eclipse.
> org/mhonarc/lists/ee4j-community/msg01104.html
> <https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ee4j-community/ > ?msg01104.html
>
>
>
> - Jakarta working group was announced to the Java Community via
> Eclipse on 3/9 https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jakarta.ee-wg/
>
>
>
> - EE4J Marketing <ee4j-marketing@xxxxxxxxxxx> *Private mailing list.
> STILL? *Though conversations minutes are public, its access to those
> conversations continues to be private to* anyone not* in the list of
> Vendors that are part of the PMC. https://docs.google.com/
> document/d/1kOREpqsUlU4cSZ-0dxK2ImiMdI1a2oW3kPrkkSWHiKU/
> edit#heading=h.1zf3hph3gzru
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kOREpqsUlU4cSZ- >0dxK2ImiMdI1a2oW3kPrkkSWHiKU/ edit#heading=h.1zf3hph3gzru
>
>
> Disclosure? I am a Triber. Tomitribe has not been a part of any of those
> Mktg conversations. They shouldn?t exist until Jakarta mktg group is
> created & give access to anyone interested to join, share & be part of the
> changing waters.
> Everyone in the Java community with good ideas must gain access & be
> welcomed to become part of the braid of what could be an amazing new
> branding home for Java EE, now Jakarta EE.
>
> Major issue with current Jakarta EE logo contest is how its deadline 3/21
> was decided and how project was just brought forth from private chats.
>
> WTH entitles the PMC active in Mktg for Jakarta EE logo to even think
> doing so is OK?
>
> Tomitribe didn?t vote or was consulted on why this project should be set
> forward. We will veto it then as we do now.
>
> The total lack of project transparency between the PMC is infuriating to
> say the least. We don?t even try to communicate with each other.
> If PMC included cannot carefully police and analyze how we get to where we
> are NOW on this design mess, I cannot even imagine how frustating those
> without access must feel.
>
> Anyone who cares, own feedback- and do so hopefully in the open.
>
> What comes next for Jakarta EE is not for EE4J PMC members to decide, but
> for each single of you, Members of the active Java EE Community to decide.
>
> We are better than current mess. I want to see Jakarta EE logo be placed
> on hold until healthy transparency is brought to the Community via EE4J
> openness on April 24th. Until then, any work done thus far means and will
> lead to nothing. The grounds are shaky and it doesn?t reflect a true
> Community for the Future of Jakarta EE.
>
>
> Amelia Eiras
> https://twitter.com/ameliaeiras
> Tribe: http://tomitribe.com https://tribestream.io
> OSS: https://tomitribe.io http://microprofile.io
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ee4j-community mailing list
> ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe
> from this list, visit
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/ee4j- community
>
>
--
*James Roper*
*Senior Octonaut*
Lightbend <https://www.lightbend.com/> ? Build reactive apps!
Twitter: @jroper <https://twitter.com/jroper>
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