Re: [ee4j-community] Fw: Re: GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5

[Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>]

+1

I saw similar issues first hand when e.g. SonaType had abandoned Maven support for WTP from M2E. A project manager at a client even convinced that client to switch to IntelliJ because of that problem. It persisted for a while but Red Hat, now also among the most important committers to M2E itself (https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/technology.m2e/who) stepped in and spawned the M2WTP project.

So I am confident, the community will heal this even if one or the other committing member should not, I would not bet on a timeline, but it will get fixed.

Cheers,

Werner

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 9:29 PM, <ee4j-community-request@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Fw: Re: GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5 (Martijn Verburg)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 20:28:56 +0000
From: Martijn Verburg <martijnverburg@xxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Fw: Re: GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
Message-ID:
        <CAP7YuAQiKMaEv3oCng20xp54YJy=TZZQ2XfceHYcvPDzo0iiCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi all,

This conversation is serving no purpose to push EE4J forwards.  Can we
please refrain from these types of conversations on this list.

Cheers,
Martijn

On 13 December 2017 at 20:09, Eric Taylor <etay5995@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Elder,
>
> Why u mad bro? Are you worried about your own book sales?
>
> -Eric
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 8:14:50 AM EST, Elder Moraes <
> elder.moraes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, I didn't find where I've offended you. But apologize if it really
> happened.
>
> Elder
>
> Twitter: @elderjava <https://twitter.com/elderjava>
> Blog: http://eldermoraes.com
>
>
>
>
> 2017-12-13 10:48 GMT-02:00 Alexander Salvanos <salvanos@xxxxxx>:
>
> Dear Elder,
>
> I saw that you are a fellow author and your picture looks sympathic, that
> is why I decided to answer your email.
> I was supprised, that you were so offensive in the public ee4j-community
> email-distributor.
> Actually, I really wasn't only pushing for the publishing company, but
> because in my book I really don't know,
> if I should stick to the GlassFish Tools as I did in my preceding Java EE
> 7 book
> or if I rather advice the reader to use the maven style. On the other hand
> the GlassFish Tools is so much more, then just a bridge. And, also I
> remembered Mike saying the words, that I should consider it done.
> So, I wanted to give Konstantin a little hint, that the work on this
> plugin is not forgotten.
> But you are also perfectly right in mentioning, that I should let the guys
> do their job.
> However, please don't offend me in public. In real life, I rather am
> friendly then fighty :)
> And since we are colleagues, I believe it is good to have understanding
> for each other.
>
> Best Regards,
> Alex
>
> Alexander Salvanos
> Goebenstr.5
> D-53113 Bonn
> Telefon: +49 (151) 24296962
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 13. Dezember 2017 um 13:17 Uhr
>
> *Von:* "Elder Moraes" <elder.moraes@xxxxxxxxx>
> *An:* "EE4J community discussions" <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Betreff:* Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
> I'm aware more than you know. Search and you will find out...
>
> That's why sounds at least weird you pushing them to finish the version
> for whatever reason. If you are only willing to help, that's a strange way
> to do it.
>
> Let the guys do their job.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Elder
>
> Twitter: @elderjava <https://twitter.com/elderjava>
> Blog: http://eldermoraes.com
>
>
>
>
> 2017-12-13 9:25 GMT-02:00 Alexander Salvanos <salvanos@xxxxxx>:
>
> Dear Elder,
>
> it is not for the publishing company, that we should have finished the
> GlassFish Tools, but for us and our target to promote EE4J.
> The to be published book is pushing Java EE 8/EE4J forward, because its
> predecessor is in Germany the widest spread Java EE 7 literature. And
> probably you will not have read the preceding emails, but is only one or
> two committers, who are working on the GlassFish Tools. Those poor guys
> have all the work on their shoulders. And I wish anybody could help them.
> In my main work, I am in a Java EE project, that would like to change from
> Spring to Java EE 8.
> But, currently it is hard for me as a Software Architect to encourage the
> consulted employees in this direction, when even the Eclipse IDE is not
> providing a bridge to the reference implementation, which is GlassFish 5.
> It is to bad you are not reading the community emails though.
> Because then you would have known, that Konstantin and his colleague are
> working hard already on this plugin :)
>
> Best Regards,
> Alex
>
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 13. Dezember 2017 um 11:51 Uhr
> *Von:* "Elder Moraes" <elder.moraes@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> *An:* "EE4J community discussions" <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Betreff:* Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
> Seriously? The community should finish a version just because your company
> - a publisher - is asking?
>
> When I thought I have seen everything... people keep surprising me!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> @elderjava
> eldermoraes.com
>
> Em 13 de dez de 2017, ?(s) 08:26, Alexander Salvanos <salvanos@xxxxxx>
> escreveu:
>
>
> Dear Konstantin,
>
> could you give me a feedback for the status of the GlassFish Tools (for
> GlassFish 5 - Java EE 8)?
> Excuse me, if I am pressing. But, the publishing company I work for, wants
> to know.
> If it is not possible to accomplish the final version with all its
> features,
> could you possibly finish a version, that offers the current functionality?
>
> I thank you for your understanding.
>
> Best Regards,
> Alex
>
>
> Alexander Salvanos
> Goebenstr.5
> D-53113 Bonn
> Telefon: +49 (151) 24296962
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 01. Dezember 2017 um 07:32 Uhr
> *Von:* "arjan tijms" <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx>
> *An:* "EE4J community discussions" <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Betreff:* Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Konstantin Komissarchik <konstantin.komissarchik@
> oracle.com <konstantin.komissarchik@oracle.com>> wrote:
>
> Sure, one could hack the version check logic to make GF Tools think that
> GF5 is GF4 and it?s possible that some of the tooling will work ok, but GF5
> is not GF4.
>
>
> Well, as far as start/stop and deploy/undeploy and the various REST
> services that the tooling uses nothing obvious that may affect tooling has
> really changed. I could be missing something of course, but as I'm the main
> dev behind Payara 5, which is a GlassFish derivative as you might know, I'm
> quite up to date with all the changes between 4 and 5.
>
>
>
> Just try running GF5 on Java 7.
>
>
> GF5 doesn't support Java 7, but users should find that out pretty quickly
> when just trying.
>
>
>
> Another aspect that comes to mind that would be broken is Javadoc linkage
> for system libraries as it would bind to Java EE 7.
>
>
> Wouldn't that only impact non-maven projects, which practically very few
> people are using these days?
>
> I'd personally think it would be better to just warn that some version is
> unknown and then offer the user to use it anyway. It's their "risk" then.
> Much better than completely bailing out. All the problems you mention are
> IMHO quite minor, and would not effect the majority of people much if at
> all.
>
>
>
> Folks are free to make the change you describe in their own forks as GF
> Tools is EPL, but we wouldn?t release something like that in any official
> capacity.
>
>
> Okay, thanks for mentioning it. I was thinking about that indeed, as I
> have a number of other enhancements in mind as well. But as everyone, time
> is the major issue.
>
>
>
>
>
> PS: Speaking of Java EE 8 Javadoc, does anyone know of a stable Javadoc
> URL for this version? Java EE 7 is here [1], but there is no equivalent URL
> for version 8. I was able to find [2], that at least currently contain Java
> EE 8 javadoc, but that URL doesn?t strike me as something stable that GF
> Tools can depend on.
>
>
> It stroke me as a little odd too, but it actually is the new official
> javadoc location. See this one as well: https://twitter.com/OmniFaces/
> status/935627672763424770
> <https://twitter.com/OmniFaces/status/935627672763424770>
>
> Kind regards,
> Arjan Tijms
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] https://docs.oracle.com/ javaee/7/api/
> <https://docs.oracle.com/javaee/7/api/>
>
> [2] https://javaee.github.io/ javaee-spec/javadocs/
> <https://javaee.github.io/javaee-spec/javadocs/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent: *Thursday, November 30, 2017 3:09 PM
> *To: *EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik <konstantin.komissarchik@
> oracle.com <konstantin.komissarchik@oracle.com>> wrote:
>
> Part of the issue is that GF5 support is dependent on Oxygen.2 for Java EE
> 8 tools, which isn?t going to be out until December 20th.
>
>
>
> I might be missing something, but it looks like the only thing stopping
> GF5 from working is an explicit check in the code for the version number.
> If you remove that check or change the upper bound to 6 (now 5, exclusive),
> everything seems to work here.
>
>
>
> What am I missing?
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Arjan Tijms
>
>
>
>
>
> I am looking for ways to possibly share pre-release builds, but can?t
> promise anything. This would be easier if we already had an Eclipse
> GlassFish Tools project, but that?s still waiting for legal approvals just
> like all the rest of ee4j. I would expect GF5 support to release through
> the current Oracle channel as part of OEPE, which does mean waiting for a
> release window when other features are ready and QA resources can be lined
> up?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> - Konstantin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Alexander Salvanos <salvanos@xxxxxx>
> *Sent: *Thursday, November 30, 2017 8:29 AM
> *To: *ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> *Cc: *ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> *Subject: *Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
>
>
>
> Hello Konstantin,
>
> thank you for implementing the GlassFish Tools 5.
> Do you have any final release date or roadmap?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Alex
>
>
> Alexander Salvanos
>
> Goebenstr.5, D-53113 Bonn
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 26. Oktober 2017 um 09:46 Uhr
> *Von:* "Alexander Salvanos" <salvanos@xxxxxx>
> *An:* ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> *Betreff:* [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
>
> Hi Ondro,
>
>
>
> yes that is correct, Oracle is still stackeholding the sourcecode of the
> Oracle Enterprise Pack for Eclipse OEPE 12.2.1.6 Plugin Tools including the
> GlassFish Tools 16.3. The current sourcecode is available under the terms
> of the Eclipse Public License v1.0.
>
> And there the method GlassFishRuntime. createDefaultRuntimeName() only
> considers the GlassFish Server Versions 4 and 3.1.
>
> In a discussion about OEPE for Eclipse Oxygen at https://community.oracle.com/
> thread/4060271 <https://community.oracle.com/thread/4060271>,
> "KostaOracle" stated on 29.09.2017 "An OEPE version that's compatible with
> Eclipse Oxygen is undergoing final testing and will be released soon."
>
> But there is no information about a roadmap, new features in paticular
> Java EE 8 or GlassFish 5.
>
> And when clicking on Release Notes of Version 12.2.1.6, a website of an
> older OEPE Version appears.
>
> Maybe the Oracle Corporation should agree to push the sourcecode to GitHub
> and extend the content in a collaborative effort.
>
> But the problem will be, that OEPE also contains other features for
> WebLogic, MAF, ADF, etc.
>
> So there should be a seperated Plugin under a new name, maybe something
> like EE4J-Plugin.
>
> But how fast could we have a "OK->GO" from the Oracle Corporation?
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 25. Oktober 2017 um 17:42 Uhr
> *Von:* "Werner Keil" <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
> *An:* "EE4J community discussions" <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Betreff:* [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools f?r GlassFish 5
>
> Alex,
>
>
>
> It seems most of your message was scrubbed. Could you send it again
> without attachments?
>
>
>
> Sorry about the subject before, but the message got through.
>
>
>
> Werner
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 5:39 PM, <ee4j-community-request@ eclipse.org
> <ee4j-community-request@eclipse.org>> wrote:
>
> Send ee4j-community mailing list submissions to
>         ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://dev.eclipse.org/ mailman/listinfo/ee4j- community
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dev.eclipse.org_mailman_listinfo_ee4j-2Dcommunity&d=DwMBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=ec4_DgVil5uG0h1oyBd1slGDWiBN9vlxeofu9jIhqp86mXJaHUtLLXs9PPYJbQOF&m=PpcYZqFLI6J8NNMcFnevyoSTnNHlXbY4Pw1UoVfAHkU&s=k--sa04T2HHuVxw_7Q0-dfljrkb5GgDOxuPb9cPPcJ0&e=>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         ee4j-community-request@ eclipse.org
> <ee4j-community-request@eclipse.org>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         ee4j-community-owner@eclipse. org
> <ee4j-community-owner@eclipse.org>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of ee4j-community digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: GlassFish Tools f?r GlassFish 5 (Alexander Salvanos)
>    2. Re: ee4j-community Digest, Vol 2, Issue 187 (Werner Keil)
>
>
> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:17:51 +0200
> From: "Alexander Salvanos" <salvanos@xxxxxx>
> To: ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools f?r GlassFish 5
> Message-ID:
>         <trinity-89e1f6c6-f159-46a0- 865f-dcb1aceaddba-
> 1508944671696@3c-app-gmx-bs76>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:39:31 +0200
> From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] ee4j-community Digest, Vol 2, Issue 187
> Message-ID:
>         <CAAGawe2_dBWUsaFh7-TT6kM3+ sQAkgDZoTG-esdQSPArsw7jwA@
> mail.gmail.com
> <CAAGawe2_dBWUsaFh7-TT6kM3%2BsQAkgDZoTG-esdQSPArsw7jwA@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Well Ivar represents exactly such employee of a rather large consultancy:
> https://www.cybercom.com/ About-Cybercom/About-the- Group/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.cybercom.com_About-2DCybercom_About-2Dthe-2DGroup_&d=DwMBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=ec4_DgVil5uG0h1oyBd1slGDWiBN9vlxeofu9jIhqp86mXJaHUtLLXs9PPYJbQOF&m=PpcYZqFLI6J8NNMcFnevyoSTnNHlXbY4Pw1UoVfAHkU&s=SJ1NgaQq03HErbaaLwcZVzEOMqOZUJJsgFmbtFcQ8EE&e=>
>
> It would not make him less neutral on particular solutions, thus why not
> ask him to speak to his management if he does not represent his employer at
> Eclipse Foundation already ;-)
>
> Werner
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:40 PM, <ee4j-community-request@ eclipse.org
> <ee4j-community-request@eclipse.org>> wrote:
>
> > Send ee4j-community mailing list submissions to
> >         ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >         https://dev.eclipse.org/ mailman/listinfo/ee4j- community
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__dev.eclipse.org_mailman_listinfo_ee4j-2Dcommunity&d=DwMBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=ec4_DgVil5uG0h1oyBd1slGDWiBN9vlxeofu9jIhqp86mXJaHUtLLXs9PPYJbQOF&m=PpcYZqFLI6J8NNMcFnevyoSTnNHlXbY4Pw1UoVfAHkU&s=k--sa04T2HHuVxw_7Q0-dfljrkb5GgDOxuPb9cPPcJ0&e=>
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >         ee4j-community-request@ eclipse.org
> <ee4j-community-request@eclipse.org>
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         ee4j-community-owner@eclipse. org
> <ee4j-community-owner@eclipse.org>
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of ee4j-community digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. LTS and EE4J (Werner Keil)
> >    2. Re: Red Hat committment to EE4J (Steve Millidge (Payara))
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:32:09 +0200
> > From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
> > To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: [ee4j-community] LTS and EE4J
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CAAGawe3rYdUFdKs8pWseUS+ YWCY0t_xAiG_SWD=Fri2DOh7gFw@
> > mail.gmail.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mail.gmail.com&d=DwMBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=ec4_DgVil5uG0h1oyBd1slGDWiBN9vlxeofu9jIhqp86mXJaHUtLLXs9PPYJbQOF&m=PpcYZqFLI6J8NNMcFnevyoSTnNHlXbY4Pw1UoVfAHkU&s=39wq-YAur1EEyoZZai4DMkIB7oaNb84SceJUrK9uMX4&e=>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Given Java SE and the JDK are about to follow support patterns exercised
> by
> > Ubuntu or CloudBees/Jenkins with LTS versions of their subsequent
> projects,
> > I wonder, if Eclipse LTS: https://lts.eclipse.org/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lts.eclipse.org_&d=DwMBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=ec4_DgVil5uG0h1oyBd1slGDWiBN9vlxeofu9jIhqp86mXJaHUtLLXs9PPYJbQOF&m=PpcYZqFLI6J8NNMcFnevyoSTnNHlXbY4Pw1UoVfAHkU&s=znm_jZdE8UJM9xv_tArpc6OKY-ZEoH5u2AZuPLq0FdY&e=>
> is still around and
> > active?
> >
> > Having LTS versions of products and compatible implementations of EE4J or
> > maybe also related projects like MicroProfile seems especially appealing
> on
> > the Enterprise front while those using Eclipse IDE or similar tools may
> end
> > up changing their tools more often, so LTS is probably of lesser value
> > here.
> >
> > Given some extra cost, it may not matter much to individual committers
> and
> > contributors but all the vendors behind EE4J, MicroProfile, etc. could
> > benefit a lot if they offer Long Term Support for these technologies. It
> is
> > likely to improve trust of those Enterprise customers who need a stable
> and
> > reliable environment rather than "The next hot stuff" which may become
> > outdated rather quickly in many cases.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Werner
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > 20171025/ede490e0/attachment. html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 14:40:18 +0000
> > From: "Steve Millidge (Payara)" <steve.millidge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
> > Message-ID:
> >         < VI1PR03MB1789BF7D4E409E66BE80F 6DD91440@VI1PR03MB1789.
> > eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__eurprd03.prod.outlook.com&d=DwMBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=ec4_DgVil5uG0h1oyBd1slGDWiBN9vlxeofu9jIhqp86mXJaHUtLLXs9PPYJbQOF&m=PpcYZqFLI6J8NNMcFnevyoSTnNHlXbY4Pw1UoVfAHkU&s=oeUi0HAoowqnuiDXLKRZlTqleHnGeOi5tucQQ7aRRh8&e=>
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hi Reza,
> >
> > I think ?vendors? will pick up a lot of the work. However not all EE4J
> > vendors are or will be big global companies ?. Also it is not only
> vendors
> > that employ developers with the ability to contribute.
> >
> > I think the word Community encompasses a lot more than the individual
> > contributing in their spare time. Many of the companies that actually
> made
> > ?tons of money out of this stuff? are actually not vendors but large
> > consultancy companies and consumers of JavaEE technology that build
> > bespoke, internal or ISV solutions on JavaEE. I would guess that the
> > global/big regional consultancy companies make many times more money out
> of
> > JavaEE and other Java frameworks than the vendors.  In an ideal world we
> > would see Consumers of the technology providing technical effort in
> driving
> > forward specifications. Consumers IMHO actually know more about how the
> > apis should look and work when developing applications than application
> > server implementers do.
> >
> > Eclipse Foundation also has a specific membership type called ?Strategic
> > Consumers? https://eclipse.org/ membership/become_a_member/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eclipse.org_membership_become-5Fa-5Fmember_&d=DwMBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=ec4_DgVil5uG0h1oyBd1slGDWiBN9vlxeofu9jIhqp86mXJaHUtLLXs9PPYJbQOF&m=PpcYZqFLI6J8NNMcFnevyoSTnNHlXbY4Pw1UoVfAHkU&s=_RzuySpJ0crW6q_YFYCHFJiX2RssNXVQDY5pZtoVzxw&e=>
> > membershipTypes.php for organisations that are not vendors. I would love
> > to see large consultancy companies, ISVs and End Users join as Strategic
> > Consumers to drive forward EE4J and commit or sponsor development effort.
> > Strategic Consumers are rewarded with reduced membership fees the more
> > developers they commit! The move to Eclipse Foundation explicitly enables
> > these sort of contributions. At the end of the day what is the
> bottom-line
> > impact of a couple of developers working full time on EE4J for a
> > consultancy company with 100s ? 1000s of developers compared to the
> > benefits they receive through increased knowledge, influence and
> > productivity?
> >
> > I encourage everybody out there that works in a large consultancy, large
> > end user or large ISV to speak to their management about becoming a
> > Strategic Member. Alternatively they could ensure their corporations buy
> > support contracts and/or licenses from the vendors so they can contribute
> > more ?. Alternatively they could sponsor individuals or employees to work
> > exclusively on EE4J.
> >
> > This is a unique opportunity and a call to arms for all organisations
> that
> > benefit from EE4J; vendors, ISVs, consultancy and end user organisations.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > From: ee4j-community-bounces@ eclipse.org
> <ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org> [mailto:ee4j-community-
> > bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Reza Rahman
> > Sent: 16 October 2017 16:09
> > To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
> >
> >
> > I really hope for the sake of so many people around the world that depend
> > on or should depend on Java EE that you are right.
> >
> > It dismays me when people that make/made tons of money out of this stuff
> > look to people that make no money or pittances to move the technology
> > forward (in fact in some cases these people sacrifice their family, free
> > time and day jobs for years to help with this stuff in any way that they
> > can). This is especially true for technologies like Servlet, JPA and so
> > many others that Sun/Oracle has invested thousands of full time employee
> > man-hours over many years for them to get anywhere.
> >
> > I can guarantee that other than a few die-hards like me in the short run,
> > no one in the community will contribute anything until they see a serious
> > commitment from vendors to move this work forward that at least somewhat
> > matches what Oracle will quite obviously not do any more. Enough said.
> > On 10/16/17 5:48 PM, Mike Milinkovich wrote:
> > Reza,
> >
> > Mark Little said "...the community has to also step forward and help make
> > this a success...".
> >
> > You said "...vendors will still need to do a lion's share of the work
> > much...".
> >
> > These are not mutually exclusive statements. Both represent matters of
> > degree. I have personally been pretty amazed at the energy shown on this
> > list over the past week.
> >
> >
> > On 2017-10-16 9:43 AM, reza_rahman wrote:
> > While I am sure the community can pick some things up just like they did
> > for Java EE 8, the reality is probably that most folks are just like me -
> > we will try to do what we can when the demands of the day job (the stuff
> > that actually helps pay the bills) and family (the stuff that actually
> > really matters at the end of the day) is done. Realistically, this
> probably
> > means about 15-20 hours a week on good weeks.
> >
> > What this means is that if this effort is to be in any way competitive,
> > vendors will still need to do a lion's share of the work much like is the
> > case for Spring, the Lightbend stack, etc. The secret sauce for Spring in
> > particular is that Pivotal has no hesitation investing in the Spring
> stack
> > even when they do not directly make money from it. If vendors do not have
> > the similar mindset here, I agree it's wise to stop wasting any more
> > effort, throw in the towel now and move on to bigger and better things.
> > While an effort driven mostly by community can move forward for shorts
> > bursts of time, the reality is that it is no match for professionals
> > getting paid full time to do 50-60 hours of work each week.
> >
> > Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Mark Little <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx><mailto:ml ittle@xxxxxxxxxx
> <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx>>
> > Date: 10/16/17 8:06 AM (GMT-05:00)
> > To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>< mailto:
> > ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
> >
> >
> > On 12 Oct 2017, at 14:48, reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> > reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >
> > More specifically, is Red Hat going to continue to move CDI and Bean
> > Validation forward?
> >
> > Yes, where forward movement makes sense.
> >
> >
> > What about JPA? I don't think anyone in the community can realistically
> > move that forward. I have similar concerns for Servlet (and perhaps a
> more
> > reactive alternative to Servlet). These APIs are so complex that you
> really
> > need dedicated folks that work for a vendor full time to move them
> forward.
> >
> > We will remain active in other JSRs and help with new efforts where it
> > makes sense. But the community has to also step forward and help make
> this
> > a success because if it remains solely in the hands of the vendors then
> > maybe we should just roll everything back.
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: "John D. Ament" <john.d.ament@xxxxxxxxx< mailto:
> > john.d.ament@xxxxxxxxx>>
> > Date: 10/12/17 7:44 AM (GMT-05:00)
> > To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx< mailto:
> > ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> > Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
> >
> > Mark,
> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:35 AM Mark Little <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> mli
> > ttle@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > For the avoidance of doubt and for those who haven't been paying
> > attention :) Red Hat is committed to working for the continuing
> > success of Java EE and now EE4J. We intend to put forward various
> > individuals who may be relevant to lead various JSRs if no other
> > appropriate community members step forward as well as the JSRs we lead
> > currently. When the time is right (note, when not if) we'll also work
> > to ensure EE4J and Eclipse MicroProfile collaborate in a meaningful
> > manner and hopefully "merge" in whatever way is appropriate and
> > determined by both communities.
> >
> > I'm assuming that the last "we" here is the MicroProfile community and
> not
> > RedHat, correct?
> >
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________ _________________
> >
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