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Re: [ee4j-community] Fw: Re: GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5

Hi all,

This conversation is serving no purpose to push EE4J forwards. Can we please refrain from these types of conversations on this list.

Cheers,
Martijn

On 13 December 2017 at 20:09, Eric Taylor <etay5995@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Elder,

Why u mad bro? Are you worried about your own book sales?

-Eric


On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 8:14:50 AM EST, Elder Moraes <elder.moraes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Sorry, I didn't find where I've offended you. But apologize if it really happened.


2017-12-13 10:48 GMT-02:00 Alexander Salvanos <salvanos@xxxxxx>:
Dear Elder,
Â
I saw that you are a fellow author and your picture looks sympathic, that is why I decided to answer your email.
I was supprised, that you were so offensive in the public ee4j-community email-distributor.
Actually, I really wasn't only pushing for the publishing company, but because in my book I really don't know,Â
if I should stick to the GlassFish Tools as I did in my preceding Java EE 7 book
or if I rather advice the reader to use the maven style. On the other hand the GlassFish Tools is so much more, then just a bridge. And, also I remembered Mike saying the words, that I should consider it done.
So, I wanted to give Konstantin a little hint, that the work on this plugin is not forgotten.
But you are also perfectly right in mentioning, that I should let the guys do their job.
However, please don't offend me in public. In real life, I rather am friendly then fighty :)
And since we are colleagues, I believe it is good to have understanding for each other.

Best Regards,
Alex

Alexander Salvanos
Goebenstr.5
D-53113 Bonn
Telefon: +49 (151) 24296962
Â
Â
Gesendet:ÂMittwoch, 13. Dezember 2017 um 13:17 Uhr

Von:Â"Elder Moraes" <elder.moraes@xxxxxxxxx>
An:Â"EE4J community discussions" <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Betreff:ÂRe: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
I'm aware more than you know. Search and you will find out...
Â
That's why sounds at least weird you pushing them to finish the version for whatever reason. If you are only willing to help, that's a strange way to do it.
Â
Let the guys do their job.
Â
Â
Cheers,
Â
Elder
Â
Twitter: @elderjava
Â
2017-12-13 9:25 GMT-02:00 Alexander Salvanos <salvanos@xxxxxx>:
Dear Elder,
Â
it is not for the publishing company, that we should have finished the GlassFish Tools, but for us and our target to promote EE4J.
The to be published book is pushing Java EE 8/EE4J forward, because its predecessor is in Germany the widest spread Java EE 7 literature. And probably you will not have read the preceding emails, but is only one or two committers, who are working on the GlassFish Tools. Those poor guys have all the work on their shoulders. And I wish anybody could help them.
In my main work, I am in a Java EE project, that would like to change from Spring to Java EE 8.
But, currently it is hard for me as a Software Architect to encourage the consulted employees in this direction, when even the Eclipse IDE is not providing a bridge to the reference implementation, which is GlassFish 5.
It is to bad you are not reading the community emails though.
Because then you would have known, that Konstantin and his colleague are working hard already on this plugin :)
Â
Best Regards,
Alex
Â
Â
Â
Gesendet:ÂMittwoch, 13. Dezember 2017 um 11:51 Uhr
Von:Â"Elder Moraes" <elder.moraes@xxxxxxxxx>

An:Â"EE4J community discussions" <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Betreff:ÂRe: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
Seriously? The community should finish a version just because your company - a publisher - is asking?
Â
When I thought I have seen everything... people keep surprising me!
Â
Sent from my iPhone
Â
@elderjava

Em 13 de dez de 2017, Ã(s) 08:26, Alexander Salvanos <salvanos@xxxxxx> escreveu:
Â
Dear Konstantin,
Â
could you give me a feedback for the status of the GlassFish Tools (for GlassFish 5 - Java EE 8)?
Excuse me, if I am pressing. But, the publishing company I work for, wants to know.
If it is not possible to accomplish the final version with all its features,
could you possibly finish a version, that offers the current functionality?
Â
I thank you for your understanding.
Â
Best Regards,
Alex
Â

Alexander Salvanos
Goebenstr.5
D-53113 Bonn
Telefon: +49 (151) 24296962
Â
Â
Gesendet:ÂFreitag, 01. Dezember 2017 um 07:32 Uhr
Von:Â"arjan tijms" <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx>
An:Â"EE4J community discussions" <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Betreff:ÂRe: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5
Hi,
Â
On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Konstantin Komissarchik <konstantin.komissarchik@ oracle.com> wrote:

Sure, one could hack the version check logic to make GF Tools think that GF5 is GF4 and itâs possible that some of the tooling will work ok, but GF5 is not GF4.

Â
Well, as far as start/stop and deploy/undeploy and the various REST services that the tooling uses nothing obvious that may affect tooling has really changed. I could be missing something of course, but as I'm the main dev behind Payara 5, which is a GlassFish derivative as you might know, I'm quite up to date with all the changes between 4 and 5.
Â
Â

Just try running GF5 on Java 7.

Â
GF5 doesn't support Java 7, but users should find that out pretty quickly when just trying.Â
Â
Â

Another aspect that comes to mind that would be broken is Javadoc linkage for system libraries as it would bind to Java EE 7.

Â
Wouldn't that only impact non-maven projects, which practically very few people are using these days?
Â
I'd personally think it would be better to just warn that some version is unknown and then offer the user to use it anyway. It's their "risk" then. Much better than completely bailing out. All the problems you mention are IMHO quite minor, and would not effect the majority of people much if at all.
Â
Â
Folks are free to make the change you describe in their own forks as GF Tools is EPL, but we wouldnât release something like that in any official capacity.
Â
Okay, thanks for mentioning it. I was thinking about that indeed, as I have a number of other enhancements in mind as well. But as everyone, time is the major issue.
Â
Â

Â

PS: Speaking of Java EE 8 Javadoc, does anyone know of a stable Javadoc URL for this version? Java EE 7 is here [1], but there is no equivalent URL for version 8. I was able to find [2], that at least currently contain Java EE 8 javadoc, but that URL doesnât strike me as something stable that GF Tools can depend on.

Â
It stroke me as a little odd too, but it actually is the new official javadoc location. See this one as well: https://twitter.com/OmniFaces/ status/935627672763424770
Â
Kind regards,
Arjan TijmsÂ
Â
Â
Â

Â

Â

[1] https://docs.oracle.com/ javaee/7/api/

[2] https://javaee.github.io/ javaee-spec/javadocs/

Â

Â

Â

From: arjan tijms
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 3:09 PM
To: EE4J community discussions


Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5

Â

Â

Hi,

Â

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:49 PM, Konstantin Komissarchik <konstantin.komissarchik@ oracle.com> wrote:

Part of the issue is that GF5 support is dependent on Oxygen.2 for Java EE 8 tools, which isnât going to be out until December 20th.

Â

I might be missing something, but it looks like the only thing stopping GF5 from working is an explicit check in the code for the version number. If you remove that check or change the upper bound to 6 (now 5, exclusive), everything seems to work here.

Â

What am I missing?

Â

Kind regards,

Arjan Tijms

Â

Â

I am looking for ways to possibly share pre-release builds, but canât promise anything. This would be easier if we already had an Eclipse GlassFish Tools project, but thatâs still waiting for legal approvals just like all the rest of ee4j. I would expect GF5 support to release through the current Oracle channel as part of OEPE, which does mean waiting for a release window when other features are ready and QA resources can be lined upâ

Â

Thanks,

Â

- Konstantin

Â

Â

From: Alexander Salvanos
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 8:29 AM
To: ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5

Â

Hello Konstantin,
Â
thank you for implementing the GlassFish Tools 5.
Do you have any final release date or roadmap?

Â

Best Regards,
Alex


Alexander Salvanos

Goebenstr.5, D-53113 Bonn
Â

Gesendet:ÂDonnerstag, 26. Oktober 2017 um 09:46 Uhr
Von:Â"Alexander Salvanos" <salvanos@xxxxxx>
An:Âee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff:Â[ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools for GlassFish 5

Hi Ondro,

Â

yes that is correct, Oracle is still stackeholding the sourcecode of the Oracle Enterprise Pack for Eclipse OEPE 12.2.1.6 Plugin Tools including the GlassFish Tools 16.3. The current sourcecode is available under the terms of the Eclipse Public License v1.0.

And there the method GlassFishRuntime. createDefaultRuntimeName() only considers the GlassFish Server Versions 4 and 3.1.

In a discussion about OEPE for Eclipse Oxygen at https://community.oracle.com/ thread/4060271, "KostaOracle" stated onÂ29.09.2017 "An OEPE version that's compatible with Eclipse Oxygen is undergoing final testing and will be released soon."

But there is no information about a roadmap, new features in paticular Java EE 8 or GlassFish 5.

And when clicking on Release Notes of Version 12.2.1.6, a website of an older OEPE Version appears.Â

Maybe the Oracle Corporation should agree to push the sourcecode to GitHub and extend the content in a collaborative effort.

But the problem will be, that OEPE also contains other features for WebLogic, MAF, ADF, etc.

So there should be a seperated Plugin under a new name, maybe something like EE4J-Plugin.

But how fast could we have a "OK->GO" from the Oracle Corporation?

Â

Best Regards,

Alex


Â

Â

Â

Gesendet:ÂMittwoch, 25. Oktober 2017 um 17:42 Uhr
Von:Â"Werner Keil" <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
An:Â"EE4J community discussions" <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Betreff:Â[ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools f?r GlassFish 5

Alex,

Â

It seems most of your message was scrubbed. Could you send it again without attachments?

Â

Sorry about the subject before, but the message got through.

Â

Werner

Â

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 5:39 PM, <ee4j-community-request@ eclipse.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

 Â1. Re: GlassFish Tools f?r GlassFish 5 (Alexander Salvanos)
 Â2. Re: ee4j-community Digest, Vol 2, Issue 187 (Werner Keil)


------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:17:51 +0200
From: "Alexander Salvanos" <salvanos@xxxxxx>
To: ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools f?r GlassFish 5
Message-ID:
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:39:31 +0200
From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] ee4j-community Digest, Vol 2, Issue 187
Message-ID:
    <CAAGawe2_dBWUsaFh7-TT6kM3+ sQAkgDZoTG-esdQSPArsw7jwA@ mail.gmail.com>
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Well Ivar represents exactly such employee of a rather large consultancy:
https://www.cybercom.com/ About-Cybercom/About-the- Group/

It would not make him less neutral on particular solutions, thus why not
ask him to speak to his management if he does not represent his employer at
Eclipse Foundation already ;-)

Werner

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:40 PM, <ee4j-community-request@ eclipse.org> wrote:

> Send ee4j-community mailing list submissions to
>Â Â Â Â Âee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>Â Â Â Â Âhttps://dev.eclipse.org/ mailman/listinfo/ee4j- community
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>Â Â Â Â Âee4j-community-request@ eclipse.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>Â Â Â Â Âee4j-community-owner@eclipse. org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of ee4j-community digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>Â Â 1. LTS and EE4J (Werner Keil)
>Â Â 2. Re: Red Hat committment to EE4J (Steve Millidge (Payara))
>
>
> ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:32:09 +0200
> From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [ee4j-community] LTS and EE4J
> Message-ID:
>Â Â Â Â Â<CAAGawe3rYdUFdKs8pWseUS+ YWCY0t_xAiG_SWD=Fri2DOh7gFw@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> Given Java SE and the JDK are about to follow support patterns exercised by
> Ubuntu or CloudBees/Jenkins with LTS versions of their subsequent projects,
> I wonder, if Eclipse LTS: https://lts.eclipse.org/ is still around and
> active?
>
> Having LTS versions of products and compatible implementations of EE4J or
> maybe also related projects like MicroProfile seems especially appealing on
> the Enterprise front while those using Eclipse IDE or similar tools may end
> up changing their tools more often, so LTS is probably of lesser value
> here.
>
> Given some extra cost, it may not matter much to individual committers and
> contributors but all the vendors behind EE4J, MicroProfile, etc. could
> benefit a lot if they offer Long Term Support for these technologies. It is
> likely to improve trust of those Enterprise customers who need a stable and
> reliable environment rather than "The next hot stuff" which may become
> outdated rather quickly in many cases.
>
> Regards,
>
> Werner
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 14:40:18 +0000
> From: "Steve Millidge (Payara)" <steve.millidge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
> Message-ID:
>Â Â Â Â Â< VI1PR03MB1789BF7D4E409E66BE80F 6DD91440@VI1PR03MB1789.
> eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Reza,
>
> I think ?vendors? will pick up a lot of the work. However not all EE4J
> vendors are or will be big global companies ?. Also it is not only vendors
> that employ developers with the ability to contribute.
>
> I think the word Community encompasses a lot more than the individual
> contributing in their spare time. Many of the companies that actually made
> ?tons of money out of this stuff? are actually not vendors but large
> consultancy companies and consumers of JavaEE technology that build
> bespoke, internal or ISV solutions on JavaEE. I would guess that the
> global/big regional consultancy companies make many times more money out of
> JavaEE and other Java frameworks than the vendors. In an ideal world we
> would see Consumers of the technology providing technical effort in driving
> forward specifications. Consumers IMHO actually know more about how the
> apis should look and work when developing applications than application
> server implementers do.
>
> Eclipse Foundation also has a specific membership type called ?Strategic
> Consumers? https://eclipse.org/ membership/become_a_member/
> membershipTypes.php for organisations that are not vendors. I would love
> to see large consultancy companies, ISVs and End Users join as Strategic
> Consumers to drive forward EE4J and commit or sponsor development effort.
> Strategic Consumers are rewarded with reduced membership fees the more
> developers they commit! The move to Eclipse Foundation explicitly enables
> these sort of contributions. At the end of the day what is the bottom-line
> impact of a couple of developers working full time on EE4J for a
> consultancy company with 100s ? 1000s of developers compared to the
> benefits they receive through increased knowledge, influence and
> productivity?
>
> I encourage everybody out there that works in a large consultancy, large
> end user or large ISV to speak to their management about becoming a
> Strategic Member. Alternatively they could ensure their corporations buy
> support contracts and/or licenses from the vendors so they can contribute
> more ?. Alternatively they could sponsor individuals or employees to work
> exclusively on EE4J.
>
> This is a unique opportunity and a call to arms for all organisations that
> benefit from EE4J; vendors, ISVs, consultancy and end user organisations.
>
> Steve
>
>
> From: ee4j-community-bounces@ eclipse.org [mailto:ee4j-community-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Reza Rahman
> Sent: 16 October 2017 16:09
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
>
>
> I really hope for the sake of so many people around the world that depend
> on or should depend on Java EE that you are right.
>
> It dismays me when people that make/made tons of money out of this stuff
> look to people that make no money or pittances to move the technology
> forward (in fact in some cases these people sacrifice their family, free
> time and day jobs for years to help with this stuff in any way that they
> can). This is especially true for technologies like Servlet, JPA and so
> many others that Sun/Oracle has invested thousands of full time employee
> man-hours over many years for them to get anywhere.
>
> I can guarantee that other than a few die-hards like me in the short run,
> no one in the community will contribute anything until they see a serious
> commitment from vendors to move this work forward that at least somewhat
> matches what Oracle will quite obviously not do any more. Enough said.
> On 10/16/17 5:48 PM, Mike Milinkovich wrote:
> Reza,
>
> Mark Little said "...the community has to also step forward and help make
> this a success...".
>
> You said "...vendors will still need to do a lion's share of the work
> much...".
>
> These are not mutually exclusive statements. Both represent matters of
> degree. I have personally been pretty amazed at the energy shown on this
> list over the past week.
>
>
> On 2017-10-16 9:43 AM, reza_rahman wrote:
> While I am sure the community can pick some things up just like they did
> for Java EE 8, the reality is probably that most folks are just like me -
> we will try to do what we can when the demands of the day job (the stuff
> that actually helps pay the bills) and family (the stuff that actually
> really matters at the end of the day) is done. Realistically, this probably
> means about 15-20 hours a week on good weeks.
>
> What this means is that if this effort is to be in any way competitive,
> vendors will still need to do a lion's share of the work much like is the
> case for Spring, the Lightbend stack, etc. The secret sauce for Spring in
> particular is that Pivotal has no hesitation investing in the Spring stack
> even when they do not directly make money from it. If vendors do not have
> the similar mindset here, I agree it's wise to stop wasting any more
> effort, throw in the towel now and move on to bigger and better things.
> While an effort driven mostly by community can move forward for shorts
> bursts of time, the reality is that it is no match for professionals
> getting paid full time to do 50-60 hours of work each week.
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Mark Little <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx><mailto:ml ittle@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 10/16/17 8:06 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>< mailto:
> ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
>
>
> On 12 Oct 2017, at 14:48, reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> More specifically, is Red Hat going to continue to move CDI and Bean
> Validation forward?
>
> Yes, where forward movement makes sense.
>
>
> What about JPA? I don't think anyone in the community can realistically
> move that forward. I have similar concerns for Servlet (and perhaps a more
> reactive alternative to Servlet). These APIs are so complex that you really
> need dedicated folks that work for a vendor full time to move them forward.
>
> We will remain active in other JSRs and help with new efforts where it
> makes sense. But the community has to also step forward and help make this
> a success because if it remains solely in the hands of the vendors then
> maybe we should just roll everything back.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "John D. Ament" <john.d.ament@xxxxxxxxx< mailto:
> john.d.ament@xxxxxxxxx>>
> Date: 10/12/17 7:44 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx< mailto:
> ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
>
> Mark,
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:35 AM Mark Little <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mli
> ttle@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> For the avoidance of doubt and for those who haven't been paying
> attention :) Red Hat is committed to working for the continuing
> success of Java EE and now EE4J. We intend to put forward various
> individuals who may be relevant to lead various JSRs if no other
> appropriate community members step forward as well as the JSRs we lead
> currently. When the time is right (note, when not if) we'll also work
> to ensure EE4J and Eclipse MicroProfile collaborate in a meaningful
> manner and hopefully "merge" in whatever way is appropriate and
> determined by both communities.
>
> I'm assuming that the last "we" here is the MicroProfile community and not
> RedHat, correct?
>
>
> Mark.
>
>
>
>
>
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