Re: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list

[Thomas Watson <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>]

It seems like the channel for community feedback should be clearly stated in the migration guide. I think the PMC should give approval to make the first announcement, then we need to make it clear in the migration guide that this is just a proposal for removing the API. There is a 2 year warning to the community to provide feedback. The last step of the process should likely be a final PMC approval of the removal after the 2 years of waiting for community feedback. This way the PMC can evaluate the feedback from the community, if any, before the final removal and closure of the bug.

Tom



Daniel Megert ---04/22/2010 10:08:56 AM---The question to me is whether the person who wants to delete an API should

From:	Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:	eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
Date:	04/22/2010 10:08 AM
Subject:	Re: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list

---

The question to me is whether the person who wants to delete an API should
first ask the community for feedback and then come to the PMC. With this,
the PMC has more data to make the final call.
Other than that I also like to collect it all in one place.

Dani

|------------>
| From:      |
|------------>
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |Jeff McAffer <jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>                                                                                                             |
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|------------>
| To:        |
|------------>
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx                                                                                                                           |
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|------------>
| Date:      |
|------------>
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |22.04.2010 16:50                                                                                                                                  |
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|------------>
| Subject:   |
|------------>
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |Re: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list                                                                                                      |
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|





I like this approach. Having the entire conversation in one place is a real
bonus IMHO.

Jeff

On 2010-04-22, at 9:04 AM, Thomas Watson wrote:



      I suggest keeping the bug open until the API is deleted. The title of
      the bug should be obvious: "Proposal for removing deprecated API
      XXX". With that title it seems reasonable to keep it open until the
      API is either deleted or closed as wontfix. The porting guide should
      reference the bug report.

      Tom



      <graycol.gif>"Oberhuber, Martin" ---04/22/2010 12:36:43 AM---Sounds
      good to me - one question remains open though:
                                                                           
 <ecblank.gif>   <ecblank.gif>                                             
 From:           "Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>      
                                                                           
 <ecblank.gif>   <ecblank.gif>                                             
 To:             <eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>                                 
                                                                           
 <ecblank.gif>   <ecblank.gif>                                             
 Date:           04/22/2010 12:36 AM                                       
                                                                           
 <ecblank.gif>   <ecblank.gif>                                             
 Subject:        RE: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list              
                                                                           







      Sounds good to me - one question remains open though:

      What is the public feedback channel for clients to disagree with the
      deletion AFTER it has been put into the porting guide? There's
      1-2 years during which we should be open for discussion.

      Shall we keep the same bug? If yes, should the bug state be
      kept open until the API is actually deleted or should the bug
      just talk about announcing the deletion (and close when
      announced)?

      Or should a different channel be used after announced (eg
      mailing list, newsgroup... but there's a risk of losing bug
      history when doing that).

      Thanks,
      --
      Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
      direct +43.662.457915.85 fax +43.662.457915.6


      From: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [
      mailto:eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Arthorne
      Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 4:07 AM
      To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list


      Ok, sounds good to me. So the process would be:

      1) Enter a bug report describing the proposed removal and rationale
      2) Send request to eclipse-pmc mailing list, quoting bug reference
      3) We discuss and come to agreement on a PMC weekly call, and mark
      pmc_approved+ on the bug if approved
      4) Wider announcement of deletion on relevant mailing lists,
      including link to bug for community comment (cross-project-issues-dev
      and eclipse-dev)
      5) Assuming no community disagreement, update deprecation comment,
      add entry in porting guide

      How does that sound?

      John


                                                                           
 Jeff McAffer <                                                            
 jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>                                                   
 Sent by:                                                                  
 eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx                                        To 
                                                 eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx   
                                                                        cc 
 04/21/2010 06:30 PM                             <ecblank.gif>             
                                                                   Subject 
                                                 Re: [eclipse-pmc] Pending 
                                                 API deletions list        
         Please respond to                                                 
      eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx                                              
                                                                           
                                   <ecblank.gif>                           
                                             <ecblank.gif>                 
                                                                           
                                                                           





      Use Bugzilla. It is open, visible, supports community input and has a
      voting/approval mechanism.

      Jeff


      On 2010-04-21, at 3:14 PM, Oberhuber, Martin wrote:

      Definitely we should use a bug for tracking each deletion.

      Note that the deprecation policy says that after the intent for API
      deletion has been
      announced, clients / consumers can argue against the deletion. So
      we'll need a
      channel for this, and it will be useful to be able and have the
      "client channel"
      reference the original discussion that led to proposing a
      deprecation.

      Actually, agreeing on what the client channel should be and how to
      announce
      it is a prerequisite for your item (3) wider announcement.

      Thanks,
      --
      Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
      direct +43.662.457915.85 fax +43.662.457915.6


      From: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [
      mailto:eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Arthorne
      Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 8:52 PM
      To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
      Subject: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list


      I haven't had a chance to bring this up in a recent PMC call, but I
      added a section to the platform porting guide for "upcoming"
      deletions according to our API deprecation policy. Please take a look
      at it in and let me know if you think of any needed changes
      (available in this week's I-builds). I added two entries partly as an
      exercise at writing what I think entries should look like as an
      example for others. We can discuss those two specific deletions at an
      upcoming call.

      The next question is what the process should be for developers who
      want to add entries to this list. My opening proposal is that we
      should have quorum agreement on deletions within the PMC because it
      is quite a significant change (rather than +1 from any single PMC
      member). So, I suggest a process such as:

      1) Developers send request to eclipse-pmc mailing list
      2) We discuss and come to agreement on a PMC weekly call
      3) Wider announcement of deletion (update deprecation comment, entry
      in porting guide, announce on wider mailing lists)

      How does that sound? Should we also require a bug report to track the
      change?

      John
      _______________________________________________
      eclipse-pmc mailing list
      eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
      https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
      _______________________________________________
      eclipse-pmc mailing list
      eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
      https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
      _______________________________________________
      eclipse-pmc mailing list
      eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
      https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc


      _______________________________________________
      eclipse-pmc mailing list
      eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
      https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc
_______________________________________________
eclipse-pmc mailing list
eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc



_______________________________________________
eclipse-pmc mailing list
eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/eclipse-pmc