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RE: RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] Fw: Declarative UI roundup?

Sure, we will do it.



From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Orme
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:25 PM
To: E4 developer list
Subject: Re: RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] Fw: Declarative UI roundup?


Yves, didn't you indicate that XAML *can* provide a 0-abstraction layer?

If XAML can provide a 0-abstraction layer, I think we should seriously consider it, so long as the IP police agree that we can.

I don't know XAML.  Could you put together a small XAML demo showing mappings for:

* properties
* methods
* style bits
* layout managers


Then we could all more objectively consider our options.

-Dave Orme

On Nov 6, 2008 8:02 AM, "Yves YANG" <yves.yang@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

So let's compare the two directions: abstraction model UI and SWT Centric


1. SWT Centric

This approach consists of mapping directly from XML <-> SWT. It is true SWT is already an abstraction of the different UI technologies: Win32, GTK, etc. But it is low level abstraction: UI Widgets. It doesn't cover more advanced concepts.


Could someone tell me why Eclipse invents a new UI Library SWT, instead of using Swing, which is already cross platform? From my point of view, SWT respects the native Look and Feel, particularly, in Windows. And Swing had some problems of performance, ugly look and complexity in development. This is a good example of courage to replace the out-of-date solution by a new one. Are we in the same situation? SWT is designed mainly to create the UI via programming. It is created several years ago. Its API doesn't full respect neither the model constraint, non JavaBean specification. Using it as main model, the new component will inherit its limitations and we have to add outside components to support other features such as style, data binding. Does it become a hybrid framework?


Since the birth of SWT, the UI technology evolves quickly to markup language. Microsoft has the courage to give up the Win32 and invent a new component-based framework WPF for providing common and full integrated UI platform not only for Developer, but also for graphic designer and business analyst. It focuses on content presentation, instead of low level basic UI widgets. It really simplifies the UI Development.


I think SWT should stay where it is designed for.


2. Abstract UI model

Simply, it will give us a new land with maximum freedom to develop a complete, extensible UI "Presentation" Framework.


Just a thought


Best regards


From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kevin McGuire
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:32 AM
To: E4 developer list

Subject: Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] Fw: Declarative UI roundup?

Great discussion guys.  I'm only beginning to understand this area and the thread has been helpfu...

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