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Re: [eclipse-dev] Eclipse rant

With answers to your post.

0. So, it will be the newsgroup that will suffer my wrath next time, I'll work on clear sceanrio's for reproducing the bugs, and will enter them to Bugzilla asap. (I'm actually developing a product and I am in a hurry, these hurdles have been with me over the past 4 month's, I've seen them at other developers workstations as well).

1. I know this is not a lot of memory, but dew to very good optimization of this system I achieve really fast work, despite it's flaws XP handles Windowed tasks very well, I have several heavy applications other than Eclipse running just fine, now.. let's see if I got this, are you seriously suggesting I should _downgrade_ my operating system?

2. As a general rule, I only go ahead with latests/recents/currents/cvs/nightlies with application that *already* work correctly and keep maximum stability, and that I trust, not the ones I'm having problems with, I'll might experiment but I doubt thats it.

3. Using 200+ (!!!) Megabytes of RAM for an IDE, no matter what the features it has... wait.. I'll recoil, and I'm seriously questioning Eclipse here, what is it that demands so much memory?, frankly my IDE would have to blurb Shakespeare sonnets out of my accidental random key strokes for me to allow it some sort of an excuse to use more then 200 Megabytes of memory. I think that's insane and you should seriously do a reality check, its an editor and a compiler stitched together, its not a new thing, its not HAL, it shouldnt use 200+ megs of RAM.

4. After reloading a file which have been modified externally of the IDE I (sometimes) get random compliation errors in my code, even after saving, refreshing, rebuilding, etc., what does seem to solve it is closing the file editor tab and reopening it, or closing the Plugin Development view and reloading it, these are especially common after debugging (i.e., moving from Debug to Plugin.. perspective), I saw this so many times the last few month's I do not believe its my misuse, after finishing my project so I could get to keep my job this is my second priority, to get to the bottom of this, be *ASSURED* this will be in Bugzilla.

5. After fighting heads on with Eclipse I went back to my original editor, Source Insight, but even if I wont use an external editor I still have to generate source files as I happen to use JavaCC generated parser rules in my project, those _have_ to be generated by an "external task" anyway.



It's important to mention that these are _strictly MY personal opinions_, and *NOT* the opinions of my employer. (or family, friends or acquaintances, etc. :)
They are solely mine.

boris+mailingslists.eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2002, dotan wrote:

My replies is beneath yours, in order.

Boris Pruessmann wrote:

First, I don't think that this is the proper place to discuss such topics, but as you started it here...

If so what is the right place? I might have made a mistake posting to an incorrect mailing list but this seems like a top priority developer problem to me (flames aside).

Given the form of your mail, I would have suggested posting it to the newsgroup. But if you've really an interest in getting those issues fixed, you would've better entered it into bugzilla.

1) I don't find any information about the environment you are using. What hardware do you have, what os etc. You don't event state which Eclipse version you are using.

Eclipse Platform

Version: 2.0
Build id: 200206271827

On a Windows XP Profossional Version 2002 build 2600, SP1.
Intel Pentium III processor 730 MHz 256 MB of RAM and 1 Gigabyte of swap.

Hmm ... that's not really much memory, especially for XP. For example, my XP takes about 90MB of memory after a clean reboot. In addition, some colleagues of mine have made the experience that their (slower) w2k systems fell much faster than my 1,7GHz XP system ...

2) Reading your post, I had to realize that you didn't took the time to read the manual or the help of Eclipse before starting to use it.

Perhaps, but while wondering inside the trail of endless rather unorganized (editor prefrences under Window menu?) menu-maze I couldnt find it, I skimmed over the Eclipse manual, no excuses, I did not fully RTFM.

Agreed with this one.

3) Concerning your 2.: That's a feature. You can toggle it via the "Show Source of Selected Element Only" toolbar button.

Thank you.

That was an easy one ;)

4) Concerning your 4.: This never happened to me with the standard configuration. Perhaps you can tell us whether you use any other (third party) plugins?

It's a vanilla eclipse for development, no 3rd party plugins.

Perhaps you should take a look at the 2.0.1 build, they've fixe quite a lot of the small problems. You might also take a look at the latest "stable" versions. They are no release versions but I seldom had big problems using those versions...

5) Concerning your 5.: You should try giving Eclipse more memory via -vmargs -Xmx... (see jre docs). Sounds like the Java garbage collection
  is doing overtime.

Indeed I tried that with but still no-go, I cannot get it to swap right, it seems that whatever I do paging takes forever, even when I'm clearing RAM and giving some more residency to java.

As I don't experience this problem and my Eclipse usually _uses_ 200M+ of heap memory, I think this is related to the few memory you got. However, it might be possible that turning of the incremental compilation will resolve some of your problems.

6) Your sixth remark: Never experienced this, but this might be related to

Correct, its as if it pages-out to nowhere.

7) Concerning incremental compilation: Again your comments show that you did
  not take the time to "learn" how to use Eclipse (nor that you took the
  time to look at the preferences). This can be turned off and btw. it's
  the very first option you see when bringing up preferences.

In addition, I totally disagree with your opinion that incremental compilation doesn't work on huge projects. Again, I think your problem
  is the lack of heap memory you gave Eclipse when starting it.

I noticed this as a pain where you cannot save without halting, sometimes to a "zombie" un-rendered window for a few seconds, and somtimes (most of the times) more, this is especially bad when editing a file outside of Eclipse and reloading the changes within the IDE, also random Eclipse compilation errors where I have to close the view and reopen it again to get rid of (without changing source code).

Well, if you don't like the feature, turn it off. And what exactly do you mean with random eclipse compilation error that force you to close the view. Is there an easy way to reproduce this ? Just out of curiosity: what external editors do you need to use?

Seems as if most of your problems have its roots in the lack of understanding Eclipse, how it works and how it's configured. However, this might be the only thing that can be taken from your post - making the out-of-the-box configuration of Eclipse to better fit the needs of the developer that wants to start over immediately.


BTW: If you have performance related problems, it might be a better idea to file a bug ticket. You'll see that there are already some issue concerning the performance and the memory footprint ...

As I shall.

Thank you,



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