Re: [cdt-dev] Is there interest in a rewritten managed build?

[Chris Recoskie <recoskie@xxxxxxxxxx>]

I worked on Managed Build also with Leo... it's been a long time but I'll try to recall some things.

As far as I understand one is to load from the plugin.xml (currently the only thing left in my code) one is to create in the toolchain editor and one is to read from "any xml file".
For instances if you create a managedBuild project and open the .cproject you will see it contains a copy of the "buildDefinition extension" from the plugin.xml file.
But if you look at
https://github.com/eclipse-cdt/cdt/blob/main/build/org.eclipse.cdt.managedbuilder.core.tests/resources/depCalcProjects/test1DepCalc2/test1DepCalc2.zip
you will see the zip contains a .cproject but also a .cdtbuild file.
Here the .cproject does not contain the "buildDefinition extension" but the .cdtBuild does.
Therefore I conclude MBS has a capability  to read the "buildDefinition extension"from a provided file. I see some rare usage for "expert users" 
but it can keep test data out of plugin.xml files. Both are "nice to have" features for little implementation cost.
So I was wondering whether the "buildDefinition extension in a file" 
feature was used outside of the managed build testing suite -or am I dreaming and is there no such functionality?-.

-----Original Message-----
From: cdt-dev <cdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> On Behalf Of Jan Baeyens
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2023 12:11 PM
To: cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [cdt-dev] Is there interest in a rewritten managed build?

Thanks for the input. It really is appreciated.

>What happened to the efforts to build a new managed build system based 
>on core build anyway? (Where I confess I never contributed either.)

I got confused with newMake. Sorry
As far as I recall (and I'm not reliable) there was a consensus that the new managed build had to be based on a modelling tool (not on the XML in plugin.xml). On a CDT meeting someone stated he was working on something that could be reused for CDT but that would take some months.
So I waited a couple of months and then asked for progress but no one in the CDT meeting at that time knew what I was talking about.
As I'm not a java programmer, have little eclipse knowledge , have little CDT knowledge , have no money to spend on this, have no hierarchical power, have difficulty in even contributing small things to CDT; there is little I can/could do when resources are needed outside of me.

Then again you can also say that this is the continuation. Basically I am rewriting MBS; what I initially wanted to do.
As -given the limitations I have- rewriting is the only thing I can do.

Someone posted the cdt-new-managedbuild-prototype code as "work that had been done". I looked at it but could not take this further. No one else did.

> 1) Does anyone use (or knows someone who uses) the internal builder?

>From Indel, no to both. And in fact, I would be interested in the answer as well, because of the recent interest in https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=72965 where reviewing a patch to the internal builder would be involved.

Thanks for your input.
I do not see any references towards internal builder in that defect. Are you sure you refer to the correct one?


> 2) Apart from the testing;  Does anyone use (or knows someone who uses) the "extension point in a file functionality" ?

 >Not sure what you mean by that.

Managed build model components like tool, toolchain, .. typically have 3 ways of construction/loading.

https://github.com/eclipse-cdt/cdt/blob/main/build/org.eclipse.cdt.managedbuilder.core/src/org/eclipse/cdt/managedbuilder/internal/core/ProjectType.java#L88
https://github.com/eclipse-cdt/cdt/blob/main/build/org.eclipse.cdt.managedbuilder.core/src/org/eclipse/cdt/managedbuilder/internal/core/ProjectType.java#L129
https://github.com/eclipse-cdt/cdt/blob/main/build/org.eclipse.cdt.managedbuilder.core/src/org/eclipse/cdt/managedbuilder/internal/core/ProjectType.java#L156 

As far as I understand one is to load from the plugin.xml (currently the only thing left in my code) one is to create in the toolchain editor and one is to read from "any xml file".
For instances if you create a managedBuild project and open the .cproject you will see it contains a copy of the "buildDefinition extension" from the plugin.xml file.
But if you look at
https://github.com/eclipse-cdt/cdt/blob/main/build/org.eclipse.cdt.managedbuilder.core.tests/resources/depCalcProjects/test1DepCalc2/test1DepCalc2.zip
you will see the zip contains a .cproject but also a .cdtbuild file.
Here the .cproject does not contain the "buildDefinition extension" but the .cdtBuild does.
Therefore I conclude MBS has a capability  to read the "buildDefinition extension"from a provided file. I see some rare usage for "expert users" 
but it can keep test data out of plugin.xml files. Both are "nice to have" features for little implementation cost.
So I was wondering whether the "buildDefinition extension in a file" 
feature was used outside of the managed build testing suite -or am I dreaming and is there no such functionality?-.


> 3) Does anyone use (or knows someone who uses) the toolchain editor (project properties->C/C++ build->toolchain editor)?

 >We don’t, and if I remember correctly, deeming it unsuitable was one of the reasons why we built a system of switching between different toolchains (different versions of GCC for different targets, and now also Clang) on top of what is a single toolchain to CDT/MBS. One of those early decisions that I would want to revisit if we were to start afresh.

I'm all ears about reasons of the different toolchains. Apart from having different options for the tools I can't see a benefit. I realize that this used to be different (way more differences between the tools and less standardisation) which forced the creation of this extra component; but I think today the benefit does not outweigh the disadvantage of using the same name for the provider of the tools as the linking between the tools.
It is one of the components that -if I do a sloeber only MBS- will be dropped; because the Arduino framework  provides the command line (including the options) and a folder to the tools.
But when I read "and now also Clang" I think "maybe I'm missing something".


Best regards

Jantje


Op 19/01/2023 om 12:50 schreef Christian Walther:
> Jan Baeyens <jan@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> What happened to the efforts to build a new managed build system 
>>> based on core build anyway? (Where I confess I never contributed 
>>> either.)
>> Good question. I don't know. Never heard about it.
> You participated in some of the discussion:
> https://www.eclipse.org/lists/cdt-dev/msg33655.html
> https://www.eclipse.org/lists/cdt-dev/msg34044.html
> INVALID URI REMOVED
> e-2Dcdt_cdt-2Dnew-2Dmanagedbuild-2Dprototype&d=DwIGaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx
> -siA1ZOg&r=-xfnHfJChlMAsZ4-I0x17oT6LWmi924DIYQY7arTId4&m=K1jwf4xTSeUbe
> wb2WDV393rp9Cck-We9PraJ8e4Q2ffs0NcCs-xAPFJnjWD7chkR&s=Ixt6MsCeYCGok6yN
> F98fYdR0ZzMyqTJ7zSlPJypAHaE&e=
>
> Seeing as William Riley from Renesas was active in it and now Mark 
> from Renesas writes
>> We did start an initiative sometime back to consider this for CDT moving forwards.
>> But sadly we did not make a big enough investment to really get it going.
> that’s probably what happened.
>
>
>> 1) Does anyone use (or knows someone who uses) the internal builder?
>  From Indel, no to both. And in fact, I would be interested in the answer as well, because of the recent interest in https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=72965 where reviewing a patch to the internal builder would be involved.
>
>> 2) Apart from the testing;  Does anyone use (or knows someone who uses) the "extension point in a file functionality" ?
> Not sure what you mean by that.
>
>> 3) Does anyone use (or knows someone who uses) the toolchain editor (project properties->C/C++ build->toolchain editor)?
> We don’t, and if I remember correctly, deeming it unsuitable was one of the reasons why we built a system of switching between different toolchains (different versions of GCC for different targets, and now also Clang) on top of what is a single toolchain to CDT/MBS. One of those early decisions that I would want to revisit if we were to start afresh.
>
>   -Christian
>
>
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