Re: [wtp-pmc] support Component in Bugzilla

[Arthur Ryman <ryman@xxxxxxxxxx>]

David,

Thx for the comments. You raise questions
that I considered so it's worth discussing the rationale.

Yes, we should create cvs and bugzilla
components to avoid this code being mixed up with the releng tools or tools
that are actually part of WTP. The new component would be WTP-wide but
clearly separated, e.g. wtp.support.

1) I think the topic of support is very
important so I will assign an owner to it. We certainly have our fair share
of bugs, and anything we can do to help the problem diagnosis process is
worth serious consideration.The current contribution is a very small piece
of code. We can ask the contributor to maintain it and have a WTP committer
act as the component lead and mentor.

2) As we all know, there are significant
obstacles to starting new projects so the most cost effective way to make
this tool available for WTP support is to include it in our project. WTP
has a set of .options files and we should make it easy for users to enable
them.

Support is a topic of general interest
and I would be in favour of moving any general purpose tools into a common
project. However, there are significant costs to starting up new Eclipes
projects. The way to get an Eclipse-wide project going is to show the existence
of useful tools, and then collect them into a common project once a critical
mass is available. The current contribution doesn't warrant the creation
of a new Eclipse project. On the other hand, we do have a collection of
WTP-specific .options and we should be making those easier to use. We should
also look at how well WTP components are using logging and other problem
determination aids, and expand the coverage as required.

The current contribution was recommended
to me by a member of our internal support team. They found it useful and
requested that WTP have something like it. I then asked the author if he
was willing to contribute it and he agreed. So we have this simple tool
available. As we discussed on the call today, interested parties should
evaluate it and comment on the bug. [1]

However, whether or not we like this
particular tool, we should start thinking more about the serviceability
of WTP. As more products adopt WTP, the issue of support will become more
important.

[1] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=141862

Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division

blog: http://ryman.eclipsedevelopersjournal.com/
phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
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mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@xxxxxxx

David M Williams <david_williams@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

05/16/2006 12:09 AM

Please respond to
"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>

To	"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Subject	Re: [wtp-pmc] support Component in Bugzilla

Arthur, I assume you mean both bugzilla and cvs? 
In either case, I'd prefer "not" .. for a couple of reasons,
1) is there a long term developer-owner responsible for it? Normally, that's
required to propose a new component. 
2) even if the answer to '1' is "yes", then I'd suggest they
form their own (opensource) project (either within their company, or Eclipse,
etc.,). 
General purpose support tools, as this one is, is not really within our
WTP scope (or  current resources) and sounds like it would be 
useful to many others besides "WTP" specifically. 

If you were just looking for an existing bugzilla component to assign this
to, then seems like the high level WST one is fine. 

If teams want to provide informal, unsupported debugging aides, they can
do that in a "development" directory of the component that owns
it. 

It does sound like "support in general"  could be worked
into a full fledge top level Eclipse project, if companies were interested
in that, 
but for the sake of purity, it does not seem like "support tools"
in general, is part of our WTP mission. 

Just my comments. 

David

Arthur Ryman <ryman@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

05/15/2006 05:48 PM

Please respond to
"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>

To	wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
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Subject	[wtp-pmc] support Component in Bugzilla

PMC Members, 

We've been discussing support issues internally at IBM and we thought it
might be a good idea to provide aids for diagnosing WTP problems. This
would help support teams. For example, WTP uses .options files to control
logging. A member of our support team wrote on article [1] on helping users
debug problems, and he contributed a tool to us [2]. I put this in releng,
but I'd like to create a new component called "support" for this
purpose. Comments? 

[1] http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/rational/library/06/0221_rossner/
[2] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=141862

Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division

blog: http://ryman.eclipsedevelopersjournal.com/
phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
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