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RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor
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Doug,
Yes, I think something is broken in the Eclipse process. The fact that
only conforming incubating projects can take advantage of parallel IP is
the issue at hand, and although we committer reps are trying to effect
change in this regard, the progress is exceedingly slow. So in the
meantime, every group seems to be creating such incubating projects. As
you well know, the IP review process is exceedingly long, so your position
is effectively to hold up progress until what's likely a months long
process completes; I doubt that's your intent. It doesn't seem
reasonable for VE to go back to incubating since that would involve
reseting the version numbers back to below 1.0; I doubt you'd suggest that
as a good solution for the community.
I'm not sure what the Tools PMC's specific problems are with dealing with
the collection of projects but an incubating subproject specific to VE or a
general one for all projects to share doesn't sound like the straw that
broke the camel's back. One of these two approaches is what all the other
PMCs seem to be doing. I hope that the Tool PMC will act quickly to foster
growth and diversity...
Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
Doug Schaefer
<DSchaefer@xxxxxx
m> To
Sent by: pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx, Tools PMC
tools-pmc-bounces mailing list
@eclipse.org <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Bjorn Freeman-Benson
10/22/2007 10:46 <bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
AM Subject
RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev]
Contribution on VE with XML editor
Please respond to
Tools PMC mailing
list
<tools-pmc@eclips
e.org>
I am not in favor of creating projects just for incubating parts of another
project. (BTW, that applies to projects at Eclipse that have already done
that). If that is necessary to get work done, then there is something
broken with the Eclipse process.
The VE project is not incubating at the moment. This contribution should go
through the regular IP process. If that is not acceptable to the VE
project, then I suggest putting the whole VE project back into incubator
mode. That would make sense given that it is in recovery mode and is trying
to rebuild its committer community with new blood.
If you haven?t noticed yet, the Tools PMC can?t deal with the collection of
projects it has now, adding more for whatever reason just won?t work.
Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
Eclipse CDT Project Lead, http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
From: tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Philippe Ombredanne
Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 1:09 AM
To: 'Tools PMC mailing list'
Subject: RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor
Ladies and gentlemen:
You are the tools PMC, so I am asking for guidance.
The VE project is in recovery mode. I just want to find a solution (I like
the approach suggested by Jeff and Ed to have something like a tools
incubator) to welcome resonably quickly new committers which are joinning
with significant pieces of code that they have built on top of VE.
I consider that important for the project and I want to benefit from the //
ip process such as not to loose the fledgling momentum that is building
around VE.
In contrast to many other projects, this is an all volunteer project and to
bring in good souls fast (especially bring in good souls that come with a
significant piece of code) is important for VE.
Whatever the solution you pick is fine
Shall I:
a) start our own VE incubator
b) work so that we start a common tools incubator to incubate for all tools
projects
And if you consider that neither a or b is acceptable to you, that is fine.
I just need to know.
There are always alternatives. Sourceforge and Google are some of them.
Cordially
--
Cheers
Philippe
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff McAffer [mailto:Jeff_McAffer@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 6:55 PM
To: Tools PMC mailing list
Cc: pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx; Tools PMC mailing list;
tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Discussions people developing code for the
Visual Editor project'
Subject: RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor
I don't follow this. the only thing that is an incubator is a subproject
(according to the current development process). so as Ed points out, the
question is whether to have a Tools Incubator project that has N
protentially largely unrelated components to incubate stuff for various
other Tools projects or to have N Tools projects each of which is an
incubator in its own right. The former is simpler from a process point of
view but perhaps less than optimal from a community point of view.
Jeff
Doug Schaefer
<DSchaefer@xxxxxxx>
Sent by: To
tools-pmc-bounces@e Tools PMC mailing list <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
clipse.org pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx
cc
tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx, "'Discussions
10/18/2007 11:20 AM people developing code for the Visual Editor
project'" <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject
RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE
with XML editor
Please respond to
Tools PMC mailing
list
<tools-pmc@eclipse
.org>
I agree. I'm not sure why the subproject would be an incubator. Why
couldn't
we just put the code in an incubator.
Doug Schaefer, QNX Software Systems
Eclipse CDT Project Lead, http://cdtdoug.blogspot.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Ed Merks
> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 6:00 AM
> To: pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx; Tools PMC mailing list
> Cc: 'Tools PMC mailing list'; tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx;
'Discussions
> people developing code for the Visual Editor project'
> Subject: RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor
>
> Guys,
>
> It seems to be a sign of a dysfunctional process when everyone needs to
> create incubating subprojects effectively for no other reason than to
take
> advantage of parallel IP. It's just not clear who is being well served
> by
> this additional organizational complexity. Note that for EMF we have
the
> EMFT project as its permanently incubating satellite project and that
all
> the components for EMFT live under /cvsroot/modeling/org.eclipse.emf
along
> with the components for EMF so it makes little real difference whether
> EMFT
> is a separate subproject or not. As such, I don't see that it makes
much
> difference whether Tools has multiple incubating subprojects or just
one.
>
>
> Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
> 905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
>
>
>
>
>
> "Philippe
> Ombredanne"
> <pombredanne@gmai
To
> l.com> "'Tools PMC mailing list'"
> Sent by: <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> tools-pmc-bounces
cc
> @eclipse.org tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx,
> "'Discussions people developing
> code for the Visual Editor
> 10/17/2007 01:02 project'" <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> AM
Subject
> RE: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev]
> Contribution on VE with XML
editor
> Please respond to
> pombredanne@gmail
> .com; Please
> respond to
> Tools PMC mailing
> list
> <tools-pmc@eclips
> e.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff wrote:
> >Sure would be good to have that parallel IP process extended to all
> projects ;-)
> +1 :-P
>
> As for getting a tools incubator, I agree I think we need one. It does
not
> make sense for a tools project to start its onw incubator just because
it
> can.
> It does not make sens not have to have the ability to incubate things in
> tools, especially when those are tightly linked to a certain tools
> project.
>
> Note that web tools started theiur own incubator.
> Incubators are in, they are cool.
> Let's do one!
>
> --
> Cheers
> Philippe
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tools-pmc-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Jeff McAffer
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:35 PM
> To: Tools PMC mailing list
> Cc: Tools PMC mailing list; tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'Discussions
> people developing code for the Visual Editor project'
> Subject: Re: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML
editor
>
>
> you would have to have a subproject in Technology as well. IMHO it
would
> be better to have one general Tools incubator subporject with N
> components
> than N Tech subprojects. Either solution is not great.
> Jeff
>
>
>
> Ed
> Merks/Toronto/I
> BM@IBMCA
> Sent by:
To
> tools-pmc-bounc Tools PMC mailing list <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> es@xxxxxxxxxxx
cc
> Tools PMC mailing list <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
> tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx, "'Discussions
people
> 10/16/2007 developing code for the Visual Editor project'"
> 08:51 PM <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
Subject
> Re: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE
> Please respond with XML editor
> to
> Tools PMC
> mailing list
> <tools-pmc@ecl
> ipse.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> Isn't that what the Technology project is for?! It seems almost
ironic
> for the Tools project to have a general purpose incubating subproject
> when
> the entire Technology project exists for this purpose...
>
>
> Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
> mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
> 905-413-3265 (t/l 969)
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff
> McAffer/Ottawa/IB
> M@IBMCA
To
> Sent by: pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx, Tools PMC
> tools-pmc-bounces mailing list
> @eclipse.org <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
cc
> "'Tools PMC mailing list'"
> 10/16/2007 08:45 <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
> PM tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx,
> "'Discussions people developing
> code for the Visual Editor
> Please respond to project'" <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Tools PMC mailing
Subject
> list Re: [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev]
> <tools-pmc@eclips Contribution on VE with XML
editor
> e.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> unfortunately the parallel IP process applies only to "Incubating
> Projects". VE is not incubating. It seems a bit extreme to set up a
new
> Tools project to incubate this work. So an interesting question is
> whether
> or not Tools should have a general "Incubator" as we do in the Eclipse
> TLP.
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> "Philippe Ombredanne"
> <pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by:
To
> tools-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx "'Discussions people developing
> g code for the Visual Editor
> project'" <ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
cc
> 10/16/2007 06:46 PM "'Tools PMC mailing list'"
> <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
Subject
> Please respond to [tools-pmc] RE: [ve-dev]
> pombredanne@xxxxxxxxx; Contribution on VE with XML
editor
> Please respond to
> Tools PMC mailing list
> <tools-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Yves:
> Welcome ! This is a great news.
> Your contributions are very much welcomed and I would love you join the
> project and be a driving force for non-Java visual editing.
> Team, I had a good discussion with Yves on the phone and here is how we
> could go at it:
> 1/ we need a VE incubator for that, so we can welcome new significant
> code
> contributions and benefit from the paralell IP process . Any thought
from
> the Tools PMC on how to do that?
> 2/ in the meantime Yves and I will work to prepare his contribution
(mini
> ip
> review, package/names space refactoring, notices, licenses etfc) and
when
> ready this will be posted in some public for everyone to review
> 3/ at that stage I'll be able to start an IPZilla CQ to get review and
> approval for that contribution
> 4/ then we can vote Yves in asa new committer
>
> The interesting things is :
> There are synergies possibilities with the proposed contribution from
> Cathy
> (the VE Groovy extensions)
> There have been request here and on the new group for XML focused VE
> extensions.
>
> Thoughts? Feedback?
>
>
> --
> Cheers
> Philippe
> http://easyeclipse.org - http://phpeclipse.net - http://eclipse.org/atf
-
> http://eclipse.org/vep - http://labs.jboss.org/drools/ -
> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XULRunner
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ve-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ve-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Yves YANG
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:36 PM
> To: ve-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [ve-dev] Contribution on VE with XML editor
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm Yves YANG from Soyatec. I were the CTO of Omondo from 2002 and
early
> 2006 and built the key components in EclispeUML. In my new company
> Soyatec,
> I work in a project to edit UI in XML file on top of VE since Mai 2006.
> This
> product is on production now in our custosmer. We think it could be
> profitable for all users if we can contribute this kind of solution in
> Eclipse to promote the XML UI approach, instead of the Java
programming.
> Please let me know if you are interested.
>
> Best regards
> Yves YANG
>
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