Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: : Re: Standardizing new TC

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Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: : Re: Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)

From: Lukas Jungmann <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 20:43:01 +0100
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On 1/10/22 8:23 PM, Thomas Watson wrote:

I agree this is a rather lengthy thread, things get lost and I would notlike to rehash this conversation again. I'll only point you to thisportion of the thread that I encourage you to read:
https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-platform-dev/msg03064.html__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dLnNk0Dg$>


thanks for the pointer,

--lukas

Tom

P.S. I know we want more to happen outside of the calls, but I thinkstuff like this would have been much better tracked in a github issuethan continuing in a mailing list thread like this.


    ----- Original message -----
    From: "Lukas Jungmann" <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
    Sent by: "jakartaee-platform-dev"
    <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
    To: jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    Cc:
    Subject: Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: Standardizing
    new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related
    classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
    Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2022 1:12 PM
    On 1/10/22 7:08 PM, Emily Jiang via jakartaee-platform-dev wrote:
     > The reasoning was mentioned in this mailing list thread as part of
     > conversation.

    I'm sorry but I got lost in the thread at the point where it was said
    that _some_ implementations are having hard times optimizing themselves.
    If that is the problem, then, IMHO, implementations should be fixed as
    they are usually those the best knowing the real "why" for what are they
    doing. I believe that what they are doing is not correct in 100% cases
    and  it is possibly just a matter of time till someone files an issue
    for some of those corner-cases for which the "optimization" is wrong.

    Or are we going to just exclude/update failing tests instead of fixing
    the root causes of the problems going forward?

    thanks,
    --lukas


     > Thanks
     > Emily
     >
     > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 5:48 PM Lukas Jungmann
     > <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
     >
     >     On 1/10/22 6:31 PM, Emily Jiang via jakartaee-platform-dev wrote:
     >      > Hi Lukas,
     >      >
     >      > In your scenario, since you are using the forbidden
    package naming
     >      > convention, I think it should be updated for Jakarta EE 10.
     >
     >     Who and when has forbidden it?
     >
     >     thanks,
     >     --lukas
     >
     >      > Before the voting is over, you can choose one of the
    options in
     >     the list
     >      > and go from there.
     >      > Thanks
     >      > Emily
     >      >
     >      > On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 5:21 PM Lukas Jungmann
     >      > <lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:lukas.jungmann@xxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
     >      >
     >      >     On 1/10/22 5:54 PM, Thomas Watson wrote:
     >      >      > +1
     >      >      > So far we have only agreed that for Jakarta 10 the
     >     jakarta.* package
     >      >      > name must NOT be used.  Ideally we would have a vote so
     >     that any new
     >      >      > TCKs for Jakarta 10 would be able to use an
    agreed package
     >     name,
     >      >     but I
     >      >      > don't think we should delay anything for Jakarta 10
    outside of
     >      >     not allow
     >      >      > jakarta.* be used for TCK packages.
     >      >
     >      >     just to make sure I understand this - in jsonp-tck
    which has been
     >      >     extracted from the platform repo to jsonp repo, tests were
     >     moved to
     >      >     `jakarta.jsonp.tck` package and the TCK as such is
    considered
     >     almost
     >      >     complete. We have one pending PR there + final review
    pending
     >     before
     >      >     turning the draft spec PR into the regular one. Are we
    really
     >     required
     >      >     to refactor everything at this stage again?
     >      >
     >      >     --lukas
     >      >
     >      >      >
     >      >      > Tom
     >      >      >
     >      >      >     ----- Original message -----
     >      >      >     From: "Emily Jiang via jakartaee-platform-dev"
     >      >      >     <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >     Sent by: "jakartaee-platform-dev"
     >      >      >     <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >     To: "jakartaee-platform developer discussions"
     >      >      >     <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >     Cc: "Emily Jiang" <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >     Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev]
     >      >     Standardizing new
     >      >      >     TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta
    Batch
     >     TCK-related
     >      >      >     classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
     >      >      >     Date: Mon, Jan 10, 2022 10:22 AM
     >      >      >     Hi Scott,
     >      >      >     My responses are inline below.
     >      >      >
     >      >      >     Thanks
     >      >      >
     >      >      >     Emily
     >      >      >
     >      >      >     On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 4:14 PM Scott Marlow
     >      >     <smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
     >      >      >     <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>> wrote:
     >      >      >
     >      >      >         On 1/6/22 4:51 PM, David Blevins wrote:
     >      >      >>         It sounds like we're all coming to
    agreement and
     >     we're
     >      >     down to
     >      >      >>         just picking the name.  To Nathan's point,
    being
     >     quick
     >      >     is key.
     >      >      >>
     >      >      >>         Here's a proposal on how to wrap this up:
     >      >      >>
     >      >      >>          - We give till Monday 8am Pacific for
    people to
     >     suggest a
     >      >      >>         package prefix that does not start with
    "jakarta"
     >      >      >>
     >      >      >>          - On Monday we start a 72-hour rank
    choice vote
     >     here on the
     >      >      >>         mailing list.
     >      >      >>
     >      >      >>          - If the chosen option needs to be eliminated
     >     for any
     >      >     reason,
     >      >      >>         we go to the second choice, etc.  No new vote
     >     necessary
     >      >     (yay,
     >      >      >>         ranked choice).
     >      >      >>
     >      >      >>          - The chosen prefix would be a
    recommendation for
     >      >     Jakarta EE
     >      >      >>         10 and a requirement for Jakarta EE 11.  TCK
     >     classes from
     >      >      >>         Jakarta EE 9.x and before are exempt,
    though we
     >     may chose to
     >      >      >>         have a separate discussion to change them
    at some
     >     point.
     >      >      >
     >      >      >         Will the vote be for recommending that new TCK
     >     tests to
     >      >     be added
     >      >      >         to EE 10 will use the package prefix?
     >      >      >
     >      >      >       I think if possible, use the agreed package
    prefix.
     >     If not,
     >      >     leave
     >      >      >     it for now. I think the minimum is not to use
    jakarta.*
     >      >     prefix as it
     >      >      >     might cause issues.
     >      >      >
     >      >      >         Will the vote be for requiring that new TCK
    tests
     >     to be
     >      >     added to
     >      >      >         EE 11 will use the package prefix?
     >      >      >
     >      >      >     Jakarta EE 11 new TCKs must use the new namespace.
     >      >      >
     >      >      >         Scott
     >      >      >
     >      >      >>         Unless there are other proposals, I'll
    kick that
     >     vote off on
     >      >      >>         Monday.
     >      >      >>
     >      >      >>
     >      >      >>         -David
     >      >      >>
     >      >      >>>         On Jan 6, 2022, at 10:51 AM, Nathan Rauh
     >      >      >>>         <nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Emily,
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         To answer your question, it's an existing TCK
     >     that we are
     >      >      >>>         porting from the platform into the the
     >     particular spec
     >      >      >>>         project where we are also adding new test
    cases to
     >      >     cover the
     >      >      >>>         function that is new in EE 10.  The developer
     >     working
     >      >     on the
     >      >      >>>         TCK port overachieved and had renamed the
     >     packages from
     >      >      >>>         whatever they were previously to
    jakarta.*, and
     >     then others
     >      >      >>>         of us when adding new tests used the same
     >     package to match
     >      >      >>>         the ported tests.  To reiterate what
    stated in my
     >      >     reply, this
     >      >      >>>         is not going to be a concern for TomEE
    and others
     >      >     because I'm
     >      >      >>>         agreeing to get the TCK off of the jakarta.*
     >     packages
     >      >     for EE
     >      >      >>>         10 - just not to wait for the outcome of what
     >     will be
     >      >     the new
     >      >      >>>         convention because that would set us back
    too far.
     >      >     Given the
     >      >      >>>         number of positive replies to that, I
    already have a
     >      >     pull in
     >      >      >>>         place to do so and have notified several
    other spec
     >      >      >>>         participants who have new TCK tests that they
     >     are writing
     >      >      >>>         currently in progress so that can use a
    different
     >      >     package.  I
     >      >      >>>         appreciate the quick replies from everyone -
     >     this is a case
     >      >      >>>         where being able to take decisive action
    right away
     >      >      >>>         definitely lessens the impact.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         From:        "Romain Manni-Bucau"
     >      >     <rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         To:        "jakartaee-platform developer
     >     discussions"
     >      >      >>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>

> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         Date:        01/06/2022 12:18 PM
     >      >      >>>         Subject:        [EXTERNAL] Re:
     >     [jakartaee-platform-dev]
     >      >      >>>         Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package
     >     prefixes for
     >      >      >>>         Jakarta Batch TCK-related
     >     classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
     >      >      >>>         Sent by:        "jakartaee-platform-dev"
     >      >      >>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>
     >       <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Just want to remind we don't speak about some
     >     issue with
     >      >      >>>         implementations - typically TomEE has a
    "toggle" to
     >      >     solve it
     >      >      >>>         - but with the spec which forbids it so
    it means
     >     that using
     >      >      >>>         jakarta.tck is forbidden by jakarta as quote
     >     earlier, in
     >      >      >>>         particular cause most of TCK are ran in
    servlet
     >     context by
     >      >      >>>         the TCK runner and it had been like that
    since
     >     years, I
     >      >     just
     >      >      >>>         think javax -> jakarta (and more likely
    sun ->
     >     eclipse)
     >      >     move
     >      >      >>>         missed that.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         So no choice to rename, it seems the
    options are:
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         * jakarta.ee- from my point of view it
    comes from
     >      >     nowhere for
     >      >      >>>         anyone not deeply involved in Jakarta,
     >      >      >>>         * tck.jakarta - not very neat but works
     >      >      >>>         * org.eclipse.jakarta.tck - I still think
    it is
     >     the most
     >      >      >>>         consistent with what Jakarta is as of today.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Agree existing spec (using org.jboss for ex)
     >     don't need to
     >      >      >>>         move now, the only requirement is to not use
     >      >      >>>         jakarta.something for anything which is
    actually
     >      >     deployed as
     >      >      >>>         an application.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Romain Manni-Bucau
     >      >      >>>         @rmannibucau|  Blog | Old Blog | Github |
     >     LinkedIn | Book
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Le jeu. 6 janv. 2022 à 18:50, Emily Jiang via
     >      >      >>>         jakartaee-platform-dev
     >      >     <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>

> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>> a écrit :
     >      >      >>>         Nathan,
     >      >      >>>         Which Jakarta spec tcks already used this
     >     package starting
     >      >      >>>         with jakarta.*? Is this change new for
    Jakarta
     >     EE 10 or
     >      >      >>>         already released in the earlier Jakarta EE
     >     release? If
     >      >     it was
     >      >      >>>         released before, then it is not an issue.
    If it
     >     is a new
     >      >      >>>         change, will this be a concern for TomEE as
     >     mentioned
     >      >     by David?
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         When TomEE (might be others) comes to run the
     >     tck, it might
     >      >      >>>         cause issues. David, any thoughts on
    this? If it
     >     is the
     >      >     case,
     >      >      >>>         it might be ok to choose a different
    package such as
     >      >      >>>         ee.jakarta or jakartatck etc.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         By the way, the new naming convention is
    for new
     >     specs. The
     >      >      >>>         existing specs should adopt it in the
    subsequent
     >     release EE
     >      >      >>>         11 once we have reached agreement on
    which name
     >     to use.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Thanks
     >      >      >>>         Emily
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 3:41 PM Nathan Rauh
     >      >      >>>         <nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>> <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:nathan.rauh@xxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
     >      >      >>>         This discussion is concerning because one
    of the
     >     Jakarta
     >      >      >>>         specs that I'm working on and which is
    already
     >     cutting
     >      >     it too
     >      >      >>>         close making the EE 10 release is
    unfortunately
     >     using
     >      >      >>>         jakarta.* package names for TCK classes,
    and now
     >     it's going
     >      >      >>>         to need to change, further compromising our
     >     chances of
     >      >      >>>         getting into EE 10.  The chosen package name
     >     doesn't matter
     >      >      >>>         to me, nor does whether or not there is
     >     standardization
     >      >      >>>         across TCKs.  What does matter (to this
    spec at
     >     least) is
     >      >      >>>         getting a decision made quickly, but I don't
     >     foresee a
     >      >      >>>         decision on this being reached anytime soon
     >     given the many
     >      >      >>>         widely varying opinions that will likely
    eventually
     >      >     become a
     >      >      >>>         vote, itself with a sufficient period of time
     >     for votes
     >      >     to be
     >      >      >>>         collected and all of that.  It's just way too
     >     late into
     >      >     EE 10
     >      >      >>>         for adding a new requirement like this,
    and I'm
     >     going to
     >      >      >>>         suggest that it apply to EE 11 instead,
    with the
     >      >      >>>         understanding that for EE 10, we'll at
    least get
     >     off of the
     >      >      >>>         jakarta.* package name in the tck to
    something
     >     else and
     >      >     then
     >      >      >>>         align with whatever you decide in EE 11.
    Unless
     >     anyone
     >      >      >>>         objects, that's what I'll plan on doing.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         From:        "Werner Keil"
    <werner.keil@xxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx
    <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx> <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx
    <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx
    <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx>>
    <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx <mailto:werner.keil@xxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         To:        "jakartaee-platform developer
     >     discussions"
     >      >      >>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>

> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         Date:        01/06/2022 09:20 AM
     >      >      >>>         Subject:        [EXTERNAL] Re:
     >     [jakartaee-platform-dev]
     >      >      >>>         Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package
     >     prefixes for
     >      >      >>>         Jakarta Batch TCK-related
     >     classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
     >      >      >>>         Sent by:        "jakartaee-platform-dev"
     >      >      >>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>
     >       <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         At least org.glassfish still seems to be
    used.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Werner
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Gesendet von Mailfür Windows
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Von: Mike Milinkovich
     >      >      >>>         Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. Januar 2022 15:24
     >      >      >>>         An: jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>

> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         Betreff: Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev]
     >     Standardizing new TCK
     >      >      >>>         packages (was:package prefixes for
    Jakarta Batch
     >      >     TCK-related
     >      >      >>>         classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         I would like to point out that we do not use
     >     "org" anywhere
     >      >      >>>         with Jakarta at the moment. We do not own the
     >      >      >>>         jakarta.orgdomain name, for example. We
    do own
     >     and use the
     >      >      >>>         jakarta.eedomain name.
     >      >      >>>         From my perspective, starting to use the .org
     >     TLD with
     >      >      >>>         Jakarta for this purpose might be confusing.
     >      >      >>>         On 2022-01-06 9:09 a.m., Scott Kurz wrote:
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         +1  fororg.jakartatck.*
     >      >      >>>         (though OK with the other options)
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Thanks David for making that an option and
     >     thanks all for
     >      >      >>>         giving this some thought.     Even though not
     >     too many
     >      >     people
     >      >      >>>         look at a TCK relatively speaking it seemed
     >     better to
     >      >     be good
     >      >      >>>         Java citizens and use a package of a
    domain name
     >     we own.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >       ------------------------------------------------------
     >      >      >>>         Scott Kurz
     >      >      >>>         WebSphere / Open Liberty Batch and Developer
     >     Experience
     >      >      >>> skurz@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx>>>
     >      >     <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:skurz@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>
     >       --------------------------------------------------------
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         "Emily Jiang via jakartaee-platform-dev"
     >     ---01/06/2022
     >      >      >>>         05:16:41 AM---Thank you David for the
    detailed
     >      >     explanation! I
     >      >      >>>         now understood the concern. The following
    package na
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         From: "Emily Jiang via
    jakartaee-platform-dev"
     >      >      >>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>

> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         To: "jakartaee-platform developer
    discussions"
     >      >      >>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>

> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         Cc: "Emily Jiang" <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         Date: 01/06/2022 05:16 AM
     >      >      >>>         Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re:
    [jakartaee-platform-dev]
     >      >      >>>         Standardizing new TCK packages (was: package
     >     prefixes for
     >      >      >>>         Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?
     >      >     org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
     >      >      >>>         Sent by: "jakartaee-platform-dev"
     >      >      >>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>
     >       <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>         <Mail Attachment.png>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Thank you David for the detailed
    explanation! I now
     >      >      >>>         understood the concern.
     >      >      >>>         The following package name might work:
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         -- tck.jakarta.<spec>.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         In all, we could choose one from the list
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         org.jakartatck.*
     >      >      >>>         ee.jakarta.tck.*
     >      >      >>>         tck.jakarta.*
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Thanks
     >      >      >>>         Emily
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 12:09 AM David Blevins
     >      >      >>>         <dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
     >      >      >>>         I think I finally see what Romain is
    talking about.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         I know in TomEE we have several
    optimizations to
     >     try and
     >      >      >>>         speed up deployment and bytecode
    scanning.  We'll
     >      >     filter out
     >      >      >>>         jars that match patterns like log4j-*,
    openejb-*,
     >      >     jakarta-*.
     >      >      >>>          Those jars are removed from the list of jars
     >     that could
     >      >      >>>         potentially contain applications and they'll
     >     never be
     >      >      >>>         searched for annotations like @Singleton,
    etc.
     >      >     Additionally,
     >      >      >>>         as everyone uses somewhat expensive
    bytecode readers
     >      >     like ASM
     >      >      >>>         to parse bytecode and scan for
    annotations, we have
     >      >      >>>         additional filters to skip non-application
     >     classes, such as
     >      >      >>>         javax.* and jakarta.*.  There are classloader
     >     related
     >      >     actions
     >      >      >>>         as well.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         Here's an example we hit in EclipseLink
    when we
     >     tried
     >      >     to use
     >      >      >>>         the Eclipse Transformer to do the
     >     javax-to-jakarta change.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         -
     >      >      >>>
     >      >
     >
    https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java#L345
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java*L345__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9driRLWiU$>

><https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java#L345

    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java*L345__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9driRLWiU$>>
     >      >

     >      >      >>>
     >      >

> <https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java#L345 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java*L345__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9driRLWiU$> <https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java#L345 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java*L345__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9driRLWiU$>> <https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java#L345 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java*L345__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9driRLWiU$> <https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java#L345 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/blame/master/jpa/org.eclipse.persistence.jpa/src/main/java/org/eclipse/persistence/internal/jpa/deployment/JavaSECMPInitializer.java*L345__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9driRLWiU$>>>>

     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         We were transforming EclipseLink 2.x
    which did
     >     not have the
     >      >      >>>         `!name.startsWith("jakarta.")` string
    check, so
     >     jakarta.*
     >      >      >>>         classes were getting loaded as application
     >     classes and
     >      >      >>>         causing most tests to fail.  We hit this in a
     >     few different
     >      >      >>>         libraries and ended up having to patch
    source to
     >     ensure
     >      >      >>>         "jakarta." and "Ljakarta/" were factored into
     >     any code that
     >      >      >>>         checked for "javax." as a package or
    "Ljavax/"
     >     as bytecode.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         If we started putting the TCK tests in
    "jakarta.tck"
     >      >     and that
     >      >      >>>         also included the test applications we
    need to
     >     deploy and
     >      >      >>>         verify, that definitely will cause issues
    in a
     >     handful of
     >      >      >>>         component implementations we all use.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         The only way to handle it would be to update
     >     code like this
     >      >      >>>         to have an exclusion that explicitly
    checks for
     >      >     "jakarta.tck"
     >      >      >>>         and ensures it is treated as user-created
     >     application code
     >      >      >>>         and bypasses any "javax" or "jakarta" checks.
     >     That's going
     >      >      >>>         to mean there'll be code in our
    implementations
     >     that says
     >      >      >>>         essentially  "if your code starts with
    jakarta.tck,
     >      >     make sure
     >      >      >>>         it's treated correctly, otherwise do
    something
     >     else."  That
     >      >      >>>         could be a slippery slope.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         It's probably better if we don't put
    ourselves in a
     >      >     situation
     >      >      >>>         were we have to write code to specially
    handle TCK
     >      >     applications.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         It occurs to be in writing this that
    literally any
     >      >     characters
     >      >      >>>         before "jakarta" solves this issue.  If
    we want
     >     a short
     >      >     name,
     >      >      >>>         we do own the jakarta.eedomain and can
     >     potentially use
     >      >     either
     >      >      >>>         of these:
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         - ee.jakarta.*
     >      >      >>>         - ee.jakarta.tck.*
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         I also just looked and jakartatck.orgwas
     >     available, so I
     >      >      >>>         purchased that and we could potentially use:
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         - org.jakartatck.*
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         If we wanted to go that direction, I'd
    just transfer
     >      >      >>>         jakartatck.orgto the Working Group like I
    did when
     >      >     purchased
     >      >      >>> jakarta.ee
     >     <http://jakarta.ee
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://jakarta.ee__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dSn9Svzk$>>
     >      >
     >       <http://jakarta.ee
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://jakarta.ee__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dSn9Svzk$> <http://jakarta.ee
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://jakarta.ee__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dSn9Svzk$>>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >
     >       <http://jakarta.ee
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://jakarta.ee__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dSn9Svzk$> <http://jakarta.ee
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://jakarta.ee__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dSn9Svzk$>>
    <http://jakarta.ee
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://jakarta.ee__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dSn9Svzk$> <http://jakarta.ee
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://jakarta.ee__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dSn9Svzk$>>>>.
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >      >>>         --
     >      >      >>>         David Blevins
     >      >      >>> http://twitter.com/dblevins
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/dblevins__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dKNSFTgI$>

     >     <http://twitter.com/dblevins
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/dblevins__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dKNSFTgI$>>
     >      >
     >       <http://twitter.com/dblevins
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/dblevins__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dKNSFTgI$> <http://twitter.com/dblevins
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/dblevins__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dKNSFTgI$>>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >
     >       <http://twitter.com/dblevins
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/dblevins__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dKNSFTgI$> <http://twitter.com/dblevins
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/dblevins__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dKNSFTgI$>>
    <http://twitter.com/dblevins
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/dblevins__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dKNSFTgI$> <http://twitter.com/dblevins
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/dblevins__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dKNSFTgI$>>>>
     >      >      >>> http://www.tomitribe.com
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tomitribe.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dxs8A060$>

     >     <http://www.tomitribe.com
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tomitribe.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dxs8A060$>>
     >      >
     >       <http://www.tomitribe.com
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tomitribe.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dxs8A060$> <http://www.tomitribe.com
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tomitribe.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dxs8A060$>>>
     >      >      >>>
     >      >
     >       <http://www.tomitribe.com
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tomitribe.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dxs8A060$> <http://www.tomitribe.com
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tomitribe.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dxs8A060$>>
    <http://www.tomitribe.com
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tomitribe.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dxs8A060$> <http://www.tomitribe.com
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.tomitribe.com__;!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dxs8A060$>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         On Jan 5, 2022, at 1:19 PM, Thomas Watson
     >      >      >>>>         <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >     <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Just to make sure I understand you.  Are you
     >      >     suggesting that
     >      >      >>>>         an application class loader for the old
    Java EE
     >     (e.g. Java
     >      >      >>>>         EE 8) must not allow not allow an
    application
     >     (WAR) to
     >      >      >>>>         package and load any classes from
    javax.* which
     >     they
     >      >      >>>>         contain.  For example, no application
    server should
     >      >     allow an
     >      >      >>>>         application to contain and successfully load
     >      >     javax.foo.Bar?
     >      >      >>>>          And now that we are in the jakarta.*
    namespace no
     >      >      >>>>         application server should allow an
    application
     >     to package
     >      >      >>>>         and load a jakarta.foo.Bar class?  What
    about javax
     >      >     now that
     >      >      >>>>         we are jakarta, can applications in
    Jakarta 9 now
     >      >      >>>>         successfully include and load javax.foo.Bar?
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         I have to say this is news to me, and I
    do not
     >     believe
     >      >     that
     >      >      >>>>         is the way most application servers behave.
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Tom
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         ----- Original message -----
     >      >      >>>>         From: "Romain Manni-Bucau"
     >     <rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Sent by: "jakartaee-platform-dev"
     >      >      >>>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >       <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         To: "jakartaee-platform developer
    discussions"
     >      >      >>>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>

> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Cc:
     >      >      >>>>         Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re:
    [jakartaee-platform-dev]
     >      >      >>>>         Standardizing new TCK packages (was: package
     >     prefixes for
     >      >      >>>>         Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?
     >      >     org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
     >      >      >>>>         Date: Wed, Jan 5, 2022 2:09 PM
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Le mer. 5 janv. 2022 à 20:37, Thomas Watson
     >      >      >>>>         <tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >     <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:tjwatson@xxxxxxxxxx>>>> a écrit :
     >      >      >>>>>         If you want one example, servlet 10.7.2
    (for
     >     v4.0 to take
     >      >      >>>>>         one example) explicit it and for good
    technical
     >      >     reasons so
     >      >      >>>>>         it is a "must stay" but it implies TCK
    shouldn't
     >      >     reuse the
     >      >      >>>>>         same package by design and as it always had
     >     been so
     >      >     it let
     >      >      >>>>>         you org.eclipse for projects without an
    historical
     >      >     package
     >      >      >>>>>         (guess it is more than fine to keep the
     >     existing one when
     >      >      >>>>>         it is there).
     >      >      >>>>         In no way do I see how that section of
    the v4.0
     >      >     servlet spec
     >      >      >>>>         says anything about jakarta.*.  That
    package didn't
     >      >     exist in
     >      >      >>>>         v4.  For v5 we have:
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >
     >
    https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html#web-application-class-loader
    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html*web-application-class-loader__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dRM6_Cyg$>

><https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html#web-application-class-loader

    <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html*web-application-class-loader__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dRM6_Cyg$>>
     >      >

     >      >      >>>>
     >      >

> <https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html#web-application-class-loader <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html*web-application-class-loader__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dRM6_Cyg$> <https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html#web-application-class-loader <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html*web-application-class-loader__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dRM6_Cyg$>> <https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html#web-application-class-loader <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html*web-application-class-loader__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dRM6_Cyg$> <https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html#web-application-class-loader <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://jakarta.ee/specifications/servlet/5.0/jakarta-servlet-spec-5.0.html*web-application-class-loader__;Iw!!ACWV5N9M2RV99hQ!YO2fd5UVcJ-9C58px-JqKHjJAx4tQTIo-5AYn87VThOD_8usNJYD3aQAAO9dRM6_Cyg$>>>>

     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Here I think you are referring to this
    sentence:
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         "Servlet containers that are not part of a
     >     Jakarta EE
     >      >      >>>>         product should not allow the application to
     >     override
     >      >     Jakarta
     >      >      >>>>         EE platform classes, such as those in
    the jakarta.*
     >      >      >>>>         namespaces, that Jakarta EE does not
    allow to be
     >      >     modified."
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         TCK classes are not considered platform
     >     classes, they are
     >      >      >>>>         TCK classes.  I don't see how this sentence
     >     applies to a
     >      >      >>>>         possible jakarta.tck package.
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         This is true for part of the tck but most of
     >     them are
     >      >      >>>>         *applications* (servlet for a trivial
    example,
     >      >     everything in
     >      >      >>>>         war/ear for another one).
     >      >      >>>>         Just stated what we have and do - and to be
     >     honest it is
     >      >      >>>>         normal otherwise tck wouldnt validate
     >     compliance using a
     >      >      >>>>         custom packaging ;).
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Tom
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         ----- Original message -----
     >      >      >>>>         From: "Romain Manni-Bucau"
     >     <rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Sent by: "jakartaee-platform-dev"
     >      >      >>>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >       <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         To: "Emily Jiang" <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Cc: "jakartaee-platform developer
    discussions"
     >      >      >>>>         <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>

> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re:
    [jakartaee-platform-dev]
     >      >      >>>>         Standardizing new TCK packages (was: package
     >     prefixes for
     >      >      >>>>         Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?
     >      >     org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
     >      >      >>>>         Date: Wed, Jan 5, 2022 10:09 AM
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Le mer. 5 janv. 2022 à 16:37, Emily Jiang
     >      >      >>>>         <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> a écrit :
     >      >      >>>>         @Romain Manni-Bucau
     >      >      >>>>          I must have misunderstood your
    question. Let
     >     me try again
     >      >      >>>>         to clarify this:
     >      >      >>>>         1. what's the plan about the spec saying
    jakarta.*
     >      >     should be
     >      >      >>>>         excluded from the applications (which
    means it
     >     cant be
     >      >     used
     >      >      >>>>         by TCK)?
     >      >      >>>>         I disagree with what you said jakarta.*
    can't
     >     be used
     >      >     by TCK
     >      >      >>>>          because TCKs are part of specs and do
    not fall
     >     into the
     >      >      >>>>         application category. Besides, can you point
     >     out which
     >      >     spec
     >      >      >>>>         has this sentence? We need to discuss this
     >     further to see
     >      >      >>>>         whether it is correct to say so if it
    does have
     >     this
     >      >     sentence.
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Ok so the consequence of you statement
    is that
     >     there is no
     >      >      >>>>         application code in TCK, no CDI bean, no
    EJB, no
     >      >     servlet, no
     >      >      >>>>         JSP etc... (which is not true right?) so TCK
     >     are mainly a)
     >      >      >>>>         application code and b) test code
    (sometimes c)
     >     runner
     >      >     code
     >      >      >>>>         but let's integrate it in b)).
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         If you want one example, servlet 10.7.2 (for
     >     v4.0 to take
     >      >      >>>>         one example) explicit it and for good
    technical
     >     reasons so
     >      >      >>>>         it is a "must stay" but it implies TCK
     >     shouldn't reuse the
     >      >      >>>>         same package by design and as it always had
     >     been so it let
     >      >      >>>>         you org.eclipse for projects without an
     >     historical package
     >      >      >>>>         (guess it is more than fine to keep the
     >     existing one
     >      >     when it
     >      >      >>>>         is there).
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         2. What about user confusion? "not care" :(?
     >      >      >>>>         Not sure what user confusion do you
    mean? TCKs
     >     are pretty
     >      >      >>>>         much for implementers. Besides, I am not
    sure what
     >      >      >>>>         confusions you are referring to. I think the
     >     namespace
     >      >     with
     >      >      >>>>         jakarta.tck is clearer as it means the
    tck classes
     >      >     from Jakarta.
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         As soon as you get the dependency in a
    dependency -
     >      >     you are
     >      >      >>>>         an user by definition - then you can get
    issues
     >     if you use
     >      >      >>>>         jakarta.
     >      >      >>>>         It is also the case for end user - who never
     >     use tck
     >      >     package
     >      >      >>>>         - on maven if they are released under
    jakarta
     >     groupId
     >      >     so as
     >      >      >>>>         recommended in java ecosystem the
    groupId should be
     >      >     aligned
     >      >      >>>>         on the package base name so likely use
     >      >      >>>>         org.eclipse.jakarta.spec or alike. The
    risk is
     >     users start
     >      >      >>>>         importing tck instead of the spec and
     >     application will
     >      >     work
     >      >      >>>>         cause the spec comes transitively but it
    is not
     >     what
     >      >     jakarta
     >      >      >>>>         wants, right? Making it clean is trivial and
     >      >     consistent with
     >      >      >>>>         everything so I think it is worth not
    trying to
     >     be more
     >      >      >>>>         clever than we need to.
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         HTH
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 3:02 PM Romain
    Manni-Bucau
     >      >      >>>>         <rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
     >      >      >>>>         @Emily: i know TCK are part of the spec
    as well
     >     as the
     >      >     API,
     >      >      >>>>         javadoc and textual doc (pdf/word) but
    you didn't
     >      >     solve the
     >      >      >>>>         2 issues I mentionned (not even speaking
    of the
     >      >      >>>>         inconsistency between the status and naming
     >     which is
     >      >      >>>>         something very few will care except
    eclipse itself
     >      >     maybe) so
     >      >      >>>>         not sure how the fact it is delivered as
    a whole
     >      >     solves the
     >      >      >>>>         fact it is forbidden by spec to use this
    package.
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Romain Manni-Bucau
     >      >      >>>>         @rmannibucau |  Blog | Old Blog | Github |
     >     LinkedIn | Book
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Le mer. 5 janv. 2022 à 15:26, Emily Jiang
     >      >      >>>>         <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> a écrit :
     >      >      >>>>         Romain,
     >      >      >>>>         TCKs are part of spec, as spec includes
     >     api/spec doc /tck.
     >      >      >>>>         Thanks
     >      >      >>>>         Emily
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 1:48 PM Romain
    Manni-Bucau
     >      >      >>>>         <rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
     >      >      >>>>         @Emily: what's the plan about the spec
    saying
     >     jakarta.*
     >      >      >>>>         should be excluded from the applications
    (which
     >     means it
     >      >      >>>>         cant be used by TCK)? What about user
     >     confusion? "not
     >      >     care" :(?
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Romain Manni-Bucau
     >      >      >>>>         @rmannibucau |  Blog | Old Blog | Github |
     >     LinkedIn | Book
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Le mer. 5 janv. 2022 à 14:31, Emily
    Jiang via
     >      >      >>>>         jakartaee-platform-dev
     >      >     <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>

> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>> a écrit :
     >      >      >>>>         We discussed the various package names
    including
     >      >      >>>>         org.eclipse.*. The feedback is that TCKs
    should
     >     align with
     >      >      >>>>         the corresponding spec. It is much nicer to
     >     start with
     >      >      >>>>         jakarta.tck to denote the TCK classes
    and also
     >     easily to
     >      >      >>>>         filter out with pattern matching when
    searching
     >     for api
     >      >      >>>>         classes. Besides it is much shorter than
     >      >     org.eclipse.jakarta.
     >      >      >>>>         In Jakarta Batch Tcks, you will use
     >     jakarta.tck.batch
     >      >      >>>>         instead of org.eclipse.jakarta.tck.batch.
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Thanks
     >      >      >>>>         Emily
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 8:05 AM Romain
    Manni-Bucau
     >      >      >>>>         <rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>
     >     <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:rmannibucau@xxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
     >      >      >>>>         As written on jbatch list I think it is
    normal
     >     and safe to
     >      >      >>>>         use org.eclipse.<something like
    jakarta.spec or
     >     just spec>
     >      >      >>>>         since jakarta specs are eclipse projects. It
     >     also has the
     >      >      >>>>         advantage to not use jakarta.* package
    which is
     >     treated
     >      >      >>>>         specifically by all implementations (by spec
     >     actually ;))
     >      >      >>>>         and would need some specific rules in
    the impl
     >     is used for
     >      >      >>>>         tcks too which is not the target of the
    spec at
     >     all.
     >      >     Lastly
     >      >      >>>>         it makes it obvious it is not part of
    the API
     >     for users so
     >      >      >>>>         it is very good too. For me, it looks like a
     >      >     consistent and
     >      >      >>>>         good compromise for everyone
    (foundation, users,
     >      >     vendors and
     >      >      >>>>         spec contributors/legal).
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Romain Manni-Bucau
     >      >      >>>>         @rmannibucau |  Blog | Old Blog | Github |
     >     LinkedIn | Book
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Le mer. 5 janv. 2022 à 08:23, Jean-Louis
    Monteiro
     >      >      >>>>         <jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
     >      >      >>>>         <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jlmonteiro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> a écrit :
     >      >      >>>>         Sounds like a good improvement to me as well
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Le mar. 4 janv. 2022 à 22:00, David Blevins
     >      >      >>>>         <dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> a
     >      >      >>>>         écrit :
     >      >      >>>>>         On Jan 4, 2022, at 12:23 PM, Emily
    Jiang via
     >      >      >>>>>         jakartaee-platform-dev
     >      >     <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>>

> > >>>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
     >      >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
     >      >      >>>>>
     >      >      >>>>>         I had this matter discussed in today's
     >     platform call.
     >      >     Below
     >      >      >>>>>         is the suggestion for the naming
    convention:
     >      >      >>>>>               • [Emily] Package naming
    convention for
     >     TCKs?
     >      >      >>>>>                       • Packages for TCK starts
    with
     >     various
     >      >     names,
     >      >      >>>>>         e.g. org.ibm, org.jboss, org.eclipse,
     >      >     jakarta.[spec].tck etc,
     >      >      >>>>>                       • Should they be
    standardized?
     >      >      >>>>>
     >      >      >>>>>               • Two things need naming standard:
     >      >      >>>>>                       • Packages
     >      >      >>>>>                               • Suggested
    Naming Standard:
     >      >      >>>>>         jakarta.tck.[spec]
     >      >      >>>>>                               • New classes in
     >     existing TCKs
     >      >     should
     >      >      >>>>>         use the new name standard
     >      >      >>>>>                       • Artifacts
     >      >      >>>>>                               • Same group id
    as the spec
     >      >      >>>>>                               • Artifact ids
    [foo]-tck
     >      >      >>>>>               • Existing TCKs may change if
    they like
     >      >      >>>>>         New TCKs must use the new name standard
     >      >      >>>>>
     >      >      >>>>>         The above is the general consensus from the
     >     meeting.
     >      >     I will
     >      >      >>>>>         start a new thread conversation for
    others to
     >     comment on
     >      >      >>>>>         the naming convention.
     >      >      >>>>         Others can chime in, but I like the above
     >     recommendation.
     >      >      >>>>          Using jakarta.tck.[spec] is just as good as
     >      >      >>>>         org.eclipse.jakarta.tck.[spec], perhaps
    better.
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         Also agree that it should be standard
    across the
     >      >     various TCKs.
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         -David
     >      >      >>>>

> > >>>> _______________________________________________

     >      >      >>>>         jakartaee-platform-dev mailing list
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     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
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    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>

> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

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> > >>>> _______________________________________________

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> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

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     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         --
     >      >      >>>>         Thanks
     >      >      >>>>         Emily
     >      >      >>>>

> > >>>> _______________________________________________

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    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>

> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
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     >      >      >>>>
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     >      >      >>>>         --
     >      >      >>>>         Thanks
     >      >      >>>>         Emily
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>
     >      >      >>>>         --
     >      >      >>>>         Thanks
     >      >      >>>>         Emily
     >      >      >>>>

> > >>>> _______________________________________________

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    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>

> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
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> > >>>> _______________________________________________

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     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>

> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
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    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
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     >      >      >>>>
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> > >>>> _______________________________________________

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> > >>>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

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     >      >      >>>
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     >      >      >>>         --
     >      >      >>>         Thanks
     >      >      >>>         Emily

> > >>> _______________________________________________

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> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

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     >      >      >>>
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> > >>> _______________________________________________

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    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>

> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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     >      >      >>>         --
     >      >      >>>         Mike Milinkovich
     >      >      >>>         Executive Director | Eclipse Foundation AISBL
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     >      >      >>>          [attachment "graycol.gif" deleted by Nathan
     >      >      >>>         Rauh/Rochester/IBM]

> > >>> _______________________________________________

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    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>

> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
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     >      >      >>>
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> > >>> _______________________________________________

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     >     <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>>>

> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

    <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

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> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

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> > >>> <mailto:jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx

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References:
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Lukas Jungmann
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Standardizing new TCK packages (was: package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes? org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Romain Manni-Bucau
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Standardizing new TCK packages (was: package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes? org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Emily Jiang
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Standardizing new TCK packages (was: package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes? org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Romain Manni-Bucau
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Standardizing new TCK packages (was: package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes? org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Emily Jiang
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Werner Keil
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Romain Manni-Bucau
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Nathan Rauh
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: David Blevins
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Thomas Watson
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Lukas Jungmann
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Emily Jiang
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] [External] : Re: Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Lukas Jungmann
- Re: [jakartaee-platform-dev] : Re: Standardizing new TCK packages (was:package prefixes for Jakarta Batch TCK-related classes?org.eclipse.ee4j.batch ?)
  - From: Thomas Watson

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