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Re: [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] [External] : Agenda for the January 25th Jakarta EE Specification Committee call
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API docs, as considered by the Java team are "user
documentation." As with our Specification Documents, our Java Docs
serve dual purpose in both describing implementation requirements
as well as being the most up to date user documentation. Some
Jakarta EE specifications have almost no Specification narrative
and solely rely on the Java Docs to describe the API.
As I view the Japanese Java SE Java Docs, I see there is a
mixture of English and Japanese. I do not know how it is decided
what is translated and what remains in English. Regardless, we
have what we have and, if we decide that translating materials
that are normative is what we want to do, so long as it is clear
that any ambiguity is arbitrated by the English artifacts, I'm
okay with proceeding.
Glad to hear that the Japanese translations are of good quality.
Thank you Kenji for that input.
-- Ed
On 1/26/2023 6:21 PM, Kenji Kazumura
(Fujitsu) wrote:
Regarding the JDK
translation in Japanese, what Ed describes is almost true.
“Java Language
Specification” and “Java Virtual Machine Specification” are
not translated.
Because JCK itself is not
public, JCK document also is not translated.
But API docs are
translated. (i.e. <”https://docs.oracle.com/javase/jp/19/docs/api/index.html”>)
The quality of Japanese
translation is not bad so far.
I believe the localized
API docs are very helpful to promote Java SE in Japan even
if they are informational only.
-Kenji Kazumura
My apologies for missing the Spec.
committee meeting yesterday (Jan 25). I'd like to add a
couple of points to the material captured in the agenda:
Regarding the specification translation
topic (This is just my input, not any commentary on the
minutes and since I wasn't at the discussion, if this was
covered, forgive me for repeating):
-
At an earlier meeting, it was suggested
that some
JDK translation work might be considered a
reference point for consideration in our discussion
about translating the specification documents. I looked
further into this and learned that, at least according
to the person I discussed this with, the JDK team only
translates what it considers user documentation. There
is no translation of JCK or other materials that are
required reading by vendors who intend to produce
compatible versions of Java SE (as an example, I believe
the
language specification document,
is only available in English). Furthermore, it is my
understanding that this translation begins with a
machine translation -- after which, there may be human
edits applied but not always. This can lead to
translations that are literal, but not always faithful
to the intent behind the written phrases and concepts.
(I cannot read Japanese so I would need to defer to
other members to tell me if this is actually an issue or
not). Machine translation can be especially troubling
when translating between European and Asian languages
but native/expert readers will probably find fault, even
with European to European machine translations. All that
said, I do not object to translation of the
Specification documents so long as they are clearly
marked as "informational only" (or something like that).
We also need to avoid putting this burden onto the
Specification development committer teams and, at least
for the foreseeable future as a prerequisite to
completing a Specification Release.
-
If I had a magic wand, I would
recommend that our time and budget be devoted to
updating our user oriented documentation: tutorials,
user-guides, and samples -- then providing those with
translations.
-
In the notes, there was text about
where to host these documents: I would recommend that
the translated specification documents be included at
jakarta.ee using the existing page localization features
provided via the site and the Hugo site generation
system (e.g.: English page:
https://jakarta.ee/specifications/; Chinese
localized page:
https://jakarta.ee/zh/specifications/). Following
this pattern, I believe we can "simply" add page
translations as they become available.
-
If/when we get to the point where we
have translated ancillary material (user guides,
samples, tutorials, etc.) we will need to figure out how
to provide those materials in an equally 'convenient'
fashion for our users. (For example, the Tutorial pages,
today, are not hosted under jakarta.ee. Fortunately,
GitHub page templates generally do include mechanisms
for hosting localized documentation so, I don't see any
barriers to this, moving forward)
Cheers,
-- Ed
On 1/24/2023 4:03
PM, Paul Buck via jakarta.ee-spec.committee wrote:
The
agenda for our committee call on Wednesday
at 17:00 UTC is here.
Please add any other business items as
required.
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