| Agreed. I’ve asked several times for this conversation to be taken to that community rather than have it under Jakarta EE lists. Still not sure why that hasn’t happened.
Mark.
+1
This is really a conversation for the MP community. Jakarta EE may leverage work done by the MP, but it's not our place on this specification body to determine the merits of having MP adopt the EFSP. Bill,
I was talking with Tanja and others
at Think last week about this exact issue... I have a TODO to perform
a thorough review of the proposed process and how it might or might not
work with MicroProfile. But, only speaking for myself (not the whole
community), I don't see how the EFSP nor the JESP will allow the MicroProfile
community to continue to drive innovation at a sufficient pace to keep
up with our past history. Yesterday's discussion even cemented some
of those views. We were talking about minimum or maximum amount of
time for each of the review cycles. At one point, we discussed how
did the JCP do it. If we fall back to the JCP rules all the time,
we've lost (imho). The JCP worked back in its day, but given the
industry today, I don't see how it can thrive. Granted, the stream-lined
JCP that is in place for the quicker paced Java SE releases is better.
But, most of the experiences that we discuss in these Jakarta EE
calls relates back to the old mechanisms.
(Aside... Maybe we need to look
at how Java is doing releases every 6 months... JEPs seem to be pretty
easy to get through the process, and then a JSR is used to actually push
through the next Java 11, 12, xx release. That's my 10,000 foot view
of the process. Do we need to look at something like this?)
So, could MicroProfle utilize the EFSP
and/or JESP as currently defined? I doubt it. Not for the many
component and platform releases that the MicroProfile community has produced.
In just over two years, we have produced 22 component releases (ie.
MP Config 1.x, MP Fault Tolerance 2.x, etc) and 8 platform releases (ie.
MicroProfile 1.x, 2.x). Given the required timelines that we discussed
yesterday, there is no way we could have done all of this in two years.
Going forward, we are looking to produce three MicroProfile platform
releases per year (Feb, June, Oct) with several component releases through
out the year. Some of these component releases are stand-alone and
some are part of the platform.
Besides the MicroProfile question, we
also have to look at this from a competition viewpoint. We have stated
that Jakarta EE is the new home for Cloud Native Java. My anecdotal
evidence from speaking at and soliciting comments from many conferences
is that Spring is still the king of Cloud Native Java. We are going
to have to figure out how the JESP will allow Jakarta EE to compete with
Spring. MicroProfile is making some inroads on this front, but we're
still small potatoes compared to Spring's presence -- especially in production
environments. I think we're making good progress with development
environments, but production is still behind. If MicroProfile is
"forced" to use the JESP (as currently defined), then I think
we lose this race as well.
Another thought... I know MicroProfile
has some IP issues to deal with. I've talked with several people
that indicate that we need to do something in this area to protect the
IP rights for the MicroProfile community. But, why does resolving
this IP issue mean that MicroProfile has to adopt the EFSP/JESP? Rather
than whether MicroProfile should adopt the EFSP/JESP, I think the real
question is whether another derivation (MicroProfile Spec Process?) could
be developed to allow our community to continue to move forward and have
our IP rights protected? Currently, that's not allowed since MicroProfile
is not part of a Working Group. Maybe that needs to be re-addressed...
This note is getting much longer than
I anticipated... But, you can see that I've been thinking about this.
I just haven't put pen to paper yet... I have several other
thoughts related to this whole effort and how it affects both Jakarta EE
and MicroProfile. But, let's start with this initial thought dump
and see where it goes...
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
From:
Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
Jakarta specification
committee <jakarta.ee-spec.committee@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
02/20/2019 03:33 PM
Subject:
[jakarta.ee-spec.committee]
MicroProfile use of Jakarta EE Specification
Process
Sent by:
jakarta.ee-spec.committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Just a reminder that I'll still waiting for feedback on
this issue:
I'd like to get an assurance from each MicroProfile participant
that the JESP would be suitable for MicroProfile, and if not exactly what
changes would be required to make it so.
Note that I'm not asking you to speak for the MicroProfile
community as a whole. I just want to know from each of you (who participates
in the MicroProfile community) if you would support the MicroProfile
community using the Jakarta EE Specification Process.
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