Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [microprofile] MicroProfile, Jakarta EE, Glas

[Emily Jiang <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi David,

Moving GlassFish out of Jakarta EE to maintain fair competition and implementation neutrality is a great idea. GlassFish was the only choice for the rectification implementation in the past due to optional features and specification. Now we have fixed that. There are many other candidates for rectification. We have been trying to move out other specification implementations out of Jakarta EE as Arjan mentioned. I also prefer Jakarta EE focuses on API, Spec and TCKs. Other related projects should be outside Jakarta EE. 

As for setting up a working group, I am with Steve and Kenji so I personally do not think it is necessary as setting up and maintaining a healthy working group is not a small thing. There are many implementation projects under Eclipse Foundation and they work fine. I don't see a reason why GlassFish is different. I assume the current contributors would continue their contributions.

Thanks,

Emily

On Mon, Aug 18, 2025 at 4:36 AM David Blevins <dblevins@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

All,

Moving MicroProfile into the Jakarta EE Working Group and disbanding the MicroProfile Working Group requires a super-majority vote.  There are currently four -1 votes and not enough +1 votes to make this happen.  Tomitribe, Atlanta JUG and Committer Rep Emerson Castaneda represent 3 of those -1 votes.

We have a proposal we'd like to discuss with the respective communities that would allow the three of us to vote +1, guaranteeing enough votes to move MicroProfile into Jakarta EE.

The Jakarta EE Working Group (WG) charter currently includes GlassFish and other Eclipse implementations within EE4J.  The Jakarta EE WG marketing is used to promote and award contributions to GlassFish as contributions to Jakarta EE.  The Jakarta EE WG budget is used to fund infrastructure for building GlassFish/EE4J and swag for top GlassFish/EE4J committers.  There is currently "Jakarta EE Community Mentor" proposal which will use all Jakarta EE channels to recognize, promote and award contributions to WG projects, including GlassFish/EE4J, excluding other implementations.

While the charter does contain "Provide vendor neutral marketing and other services to the Jakarta EE ecosystem", in practice marketing and budget are provided to GlassFish/EE4J in ways it will not extend to other vendors.  The justification is that GlassFish/EE4J are part of the Jakarta EE Working Group and other implementations are not.

Our proposal is to move GlassFish/EE4J into a dedicated Working Group where these activities can happen without compromising the vendor neutrality goal of Jakarta EE.  In short:

- Establish an EE4J Working Group and move all implementations out of Jakarta EE
- Move Jakarta EE budget line items associated with implementations (Infra $60k, etc) into EE4J Working Group
- Bootstrap this from the current year Jakarta EE budget as we did to start the MicroProfile Working Group

- Dissolve the MicroProfile Working Group and move all specs to Jakarta EE
- Increase Jakarta EE budget $50k to ensure Eclipse does not lose the $50k MicroProfile Working Group budget
- Revise Jakarta EE charter to remove references to EE4J (PMC representation on Jakarta EE committees would remain intact)
- Add requirement that inclusive vendor-neutral criteria will be established for marketing and other services extended to implementations in the Jakarta EE ecosystem

If there was support for moving GlassFish/EE4J to a separate Working Group, this commitment to neutrality would be applauded and we would vote +1 on moving MicroProfile into Jakarta EE.  If all voices come with "why is this so bad" and general pushback, then we do not see value in moving MicroProfile to a Working Group that does not prioritize neutrality.

Would there be support for such a proposal to unite Jakarta EE / MicroProfile in a vendor-neutral Working Group and elevate GlassFish/EE4J into a dedicated Working Group?


-David

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Thanks
Emily