There
is another misunderstanding. The PMC's role of "oversight"
is to guarantee all subprojects stick to the EDP rules. It
does not imply overriding self-governance of the
committers at free will. Certainly you can ask for their
advice in any other direction (just as you could ask
anybody else), but without powers to enforce it, it is
simply in vain as it is not enforceable.
As
long as the PMC participates in discussions that fall into
the self-governance of the subprojects without clearly
marking the answer as personal opinion or being
non-authoritative, I doubt that all PMC members have fully
understood where the PMC's powers end and the
self-governance of the sub-projects start. And as long as
that is the case, I will be the scapegoat that reminds
everybody.
BTW,
I'm pretty sure the PMC is mature enough to tell me directly
when they have the impression that they can leave incubation
state.
-Markus
From: Bill Shannon
[mailto:bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 19:18
To: Markus KARG; 'EE4J PMC Discussions'
Subject: Re: [ee4j-pmc] git tags naming
convention?
The PMC is supposed to provide oversight
for all the projects, that's why I'm looking for their
advice. If the PMC wants to turn this into a poll of all
Committers, that's fine with me.
And I'm sure the PMC already knows well what they can and can
not do, you don't need to keep reminding them. I've seen no
evidence that they've been acting against the EDP. If you see
such evidence, you should take it up with them directly.
Markus KARG wrote on 10/31/2018 11:04 AM:
Bill,
once
again you misunderstood my postings. I really do not tell
you what *you* can do or not, I tell *the PMC* what they
cannot do according to EF rules. I also want better
inter-project collaboration, but *the PMC's* mailing list is
the wrong place for reaching other projects. BTW, there is
no such group like "ourselves" in the EF, there only is "the
public", "the committers" and "the PMC members".
In
fact you have my full support for better inter-project
communication among the committers to reach all consistency
wanted by committers. What I like to express simply is that
the PMC is de jure not the right entity to reach this
concensus, as the PMC has neither the power to enforce
consistency in your questions unless technically needed, nor
is it the inter-project communication area. So what will be
the *effective* outcome? What you apparently strive for will
de facto only be reached by asking the committers of all
projects, not anybody else. You reach absolutely not what
you want if the PMC says "yes, good idea" but some
committers simply do not follow because they possibly have a
different opinion.
Besides
that, I will keep telling what the EDP says as long as I
have the impression that it is either not understood or
intentionally ignored.
-Markus
From: Bill Shannon [mailto:bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 18:19
To: EE4J PMC Discussions; Markus KARG
Subject: Re: [ee4j-pmc] git tags naming
convention?
Markus, you
really are not helping by continuing to repeat your mantra.
Some of us want to do things in a consistent way
across the community. Unless your goal is to force
every project to be different, please just accept that you're
allowed to do things differently in your projects, but some of
the rest of us might want to do things the same way across
multiple project, on purpose. We're not going to tell you
that you have to do things the same way, but please don't tell
us that we can't conspire among ourselves to do things
the same way.
Thanks.
Markus KARG wrote on 10/30/2018 11:07 PM:
I
know Bill and others don't like to hear it anymore, but
unless there is an urgent need to decide this topic by the
PMC, according to the EDP this is up to each project to
decide or even let the committer himself decide.
-Markus
I
agree. We use annotated tags when releasing MicroProfile
releases. I think we should continue that practice with
Jakarta EE.
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx
Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
ee4j-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
wrote on 10/30/2018 01:28:54 PM:
> From: Raymond Auge <raymond.auge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: ee4j-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: 10/30/2018
01:29 PM
> Subject: Re:
[ee4j-pmc] git tags naming convention?
> Sent by: ee4j-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> I think having recourse to see _who_ created the
tag (annotated
> tags) is more useful than not.
>
> - Ray
>
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 2:23 PM Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> (Apparently no one
cares about this stuff but I'll ask anyway...)
>
> Assuming the PMC recommendation is to use just
the version number as
> the tag, do people prefer git lightweight tags or
git annotated tags?
> Ivar Grimstad wrote
on 10/01/2018 10:43 PM:
> We have not defined
any conventions for EE4J for this. Personally, I
> like naming the tag as the version number of the
released artifact.
>
> Should we define EE4J-wide conventions or just
leave it to the projects?
>
> Ivar
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 12:58 AM Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> Is there an
EE4J-wide convention for how to name the git tags for
> releases of various sorts?
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>
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> --
> Raymond
Augé (@rotty3000)
> Senior Software
Architect Liferay, Inc. (@Liferay)
> Board Member &
EEG Co-Chair, OSGi Alliance (@OSGiAlliance)
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