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Re: [ee4j-community] Tomitribe Veto's Jakarta EE logo Design-- Biggest mess seen under EE4J
I also understand her message that way.

I'm not familiar with the Eclipse processes and I presuppose good intentions from everyone but I don't understand either why the marketing mailing list is private and who exactly is making decissions right now.

Some insight on that would be appreciated, but it isn't something that worries me specially.

El mar., 20 mar. 2018 15:53, Mariano Amar <mariano.amar@xxxxxxxxxx> escribió:
Just to throw some light on the issue, I believe Amelia is referring to the fact we went from no logo being talked about publicly to a complete process in place, with defined steps and dates.

My guess is she's asking for more transparency on how we went from "checking the WG's charter" to "fully built WGs with ongoing projects in the works".


I don't agree with most of it myself, but there is one thing that worries me:

Who is actually deciding all this?
As far as I remember, every single WG in the JakartaEE project is 50% composed of elected members... And I don't remember there being elections for a dozen seats in the last 2 weeks (since the charter was last amended).
So, there SHOULDN'T be any WG to decide anything.
I believe THAT is the crux of her issue. That all this is being decided behind closed doors.

The process itself seems transparent enough: public submissions, legal team checking for viable logos, community vote at the end.
I'd like it more if we didn't just have to vote from the N logos privately chosen as best. I believe it would be better if we were given every single submission that passes any legal wrangling needed, but that's not a show-stopper.

But the fact we've got the logo decision in place when the group that should be doing this has not been formed yet, and no public anything on this until the submissions were open, DOES raise some concerns.

Regards,
Mariano

Mariano Amar

Senior Consultant

email/hangouts: mariano.amar@xxxxxxxxxx
skype: marianoamar

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On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 11:30 AM, John D. Ament <john.d.ament@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
TBH +1 to Mike's notes here.  Having run a similar contest about a year ago at the ASF, it is important to have public submissions, private reviews to dwindle submissions to only valid ones, and a public community vote.  I think everything here has been as open as possible.


On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 10:10 AM Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Amelia,

This email is disappointing on a number of levels. 

We are currently running an open process soliciting community submissions for the logo. There are no logo discussions happening behind closed doors, because honestly if there were I would know about them. There are none. 

We (the Eclipse Foundation) are simply waiting for the submissions to close, and then we will start selecting the finalists to put to a community vote. I make *no* apologies for having the Eclipse Foundation be responsible for shortening the list to a couple of choices, given the legal and other complexities of the task. Once we have that shortlist of two to four finalists we will have an open community vote, just like we did with the name. 

I am very disappointed that you are not willing to assume good intentions on behalf of a lot of people working really hard for the community. 

On Mar 20, 2018, at 1:09 AM, Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Community, 

As a Java community member, I am deeply disappointed we are here talking already about Jakarta EE logo designs under close doors… Why does it matter that I send this email?

It is not because I am a passionate Java Community member. This email exists because when I see BS taking shape, I cannot be a neutral bystander. 

What is the logo design rush?     
  • Jakarta EE Logo that has no skeleton I can refer to. Show it to me please team. 
  • the actions behind this logo  project are a freaking mess & a distraction from what a real Community does. Current actions, if not stopped and traced back are utilizing the trust by those +6K voters that care enough to help Java EE >Jakarta EE. 

This current form on project is the WRONG method.   Thus far in everything done to move forward Jakarta logo contest under private channels could have been avoided. 

 Personally, as a Java active community member I detest lack of transparency on anything OSS related. 
 As a Triber, I cannot & have not been a part of EE4J private mktg meetings b/c they serve no real purpose until healthier EE4J transparency is brought forth. Current ETA deadline April 24.  

What we are currently seeing is not what a welcoming and re-constructing Community needs to set the foundations of a strong OSS home for java EE.   Actions such as Jakarta EE logo, if it moves forward and not stops & retracts from how it became a thing, it will have negative  consequences where only those initially involved will bare 100% of the success and failure.  

—

Quick recap: 

  • Java EE was renamed by volunteer voting Community to Jakarta EE at the end of Feb 2018.  




Disclosure— I am a Triber.  Tomitribe has not been a part of any of those Mktg conversations. They shouldn’t exist until  Jakarta mktg group is created & give access to anyone interested to join, share & be part of the changing waters. 
Everyone in the Java community with good ideas must gain access & be welcomed to become part of the braid of what could be an amazing new branding home for Java EE, now Jakarta EE.

Major issue with current Jakarta EE logo contest is how its deadline 3/21 was decided and how project was just brought forth from private chats. 

WTH entitles the PMC active in Mktg for Jakarta EE logo to even think doing so is OK?

Tomitribe didn’t vote or was consulted on why this project should be set forward.  We will veto it then as we do now. 

The total lack of project transparency between the PMC is infuriating to say the least.  We don’t even try to communicate with each other. 
If PMC included cannot carefully police and analyze how we get to where we are NOW on this design mess,  I cannot even imagine how frustating those without access must feel.  

Anyone who cares, own feedback- and do so hopefully in the open. 

What comes next for Jakarta EE is not for EE4J PMC members to decide, but for each single of you, Members of the active Java EE Community to decide. 

We are better than current mess. I want to see Jakarta EE logo be placed on hold until healthy transparency is brought to the Community via EE4J openness on April 24th. Until then, any work done thus far means and will lead to nothing. The grounds are shaky and it doesn’t reflect a true Community for the Future of Jakarta EE. 



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