Re: [ee4j-community] Tomitribe Veto's Jakarta EE logo Design-- Biggest m

[Mark Little <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Agreed. Other than ensuring the submission process is publicised more
I can't think of anything we'd do differently at this stage.

Mark.

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 2:21 PM, Steve Wallin <steve_wallin@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> The logo is open for sumission, I understand that once all the submissions
> are in there will be a narrowing process just like the name. I don’t see
> what the issue is here?
>
> Steve
>
> Sent from my iPhone using IBM Verse
>
> ________________________________
> On 20 Mar 2018, 06:39:06, reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> From: reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx
> To: ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc:
> Date: 20 Mar 2018, 06:39:06
>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Tomitribe Veto's Jakarta EE logo Design--
> Biggest mess seen under EE4J
>
> +1. I totally agree with James on this one. The logo selection process has
> been open enough in my view. This is a big undertaking. Let's give people
> some due slack.
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: James Roper <james@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 3/20/18 5:08 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Tomitribe Veto's Jakarta EE logo Design--
> Biggest mess seen under EE4J
>
> I was under the impression that the marketing team was shortlisting a list
> of logos, and would seek input from the community. That seemed like a
> sensible approach to me, and seemed to be what is happening right now on
> this very mailing list. An effective community is one that delegates
> responsibility, putting trust in the right people to make decisions on the
> communities behalf, not one that includes the entire community on every
> decision.
>
> I can't speak for the how the marketing is being run now, maybe the mailing
> list should be public, maybe it shouldn't, but let's not forget what our
> primary goals are here - under the JCP, Java EE had stagnated, now we need
> to bring Jakarta EE back to the forefront of innovation for enterprise
> systems. There's a lot that needs to be done before we can even start on
> that task, we need to be publishing documentation and project information on
> websites for example, and we can't do that without a logo. Everyone is eager
> to get these ramp up tasks done, so we can move onto the real work, to be
> able to start having solid technical discussions about where Jakarta EE
> needs to go, what new specs are needed, how existing specs need to be
> updated. The logo is important, but it seems there is already a team of 12
> or so people working on that, why don't we trust them to make a good
> decision so that we can quickly get to what really matters - the specs, the
> technology, innovation.
>
> On 20 March 2018 at 19:09, Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Community,
>>
>> As a Java community member, I am deeply disappointed we are here talking
>> already about Jakarta EE logo designs under close doors… Why does it matter
>> that I send this email?
>>
>> It is not because I am a passionate Java Community member. This email
>> exists because when I see BS taking shape, I cannot be a neutral bystander.
>>
>> What is the logo design rush?
>>
>> Jakarta EE Logo that has no skeleton I can refer to. Show it to me please
>> team.
>> the actions behind this logo  project are a freaking mess & a distraction
>> from what a real Community does. Current actions, if not stopped and traced
>> back are utilizing the trust by those +6K voters that care enough to help
>> Java EE >Jakarta EE.
>>
>>
>> This current form on project is the WRONG method.   Thus far in everything
>> done to move forward Jakarta logo contest under private channels could have
>> been avoided.
>>
>>  Personally, as a Java active community member I detest lack of
>> transparency on anything OSS related.
>>  As a Triber, I cannot & have not been a part of EE4J private mktg
>> meetings b/c they serve no real purpose until healthier EE4J transparency is
>> brought forth. Current ETA deadline April 24.
>>
>> What we are currently seeing is not what a welcoming and re-constructing
>> Community needs to set the foundations of a strong OSS home for java EE.
>> Actions such as Jakarta EE logo, if it moves forward and not stops &
>> retracts from how it became a thing, it will have negative  consequences
>> where only those initially involved will bare 100% of the success and
>> failure.
>>
>> —
>>
>> Quick recap:
>>
>> Java EE was renamed by volunteer voting Community to Jakarta EE at the end
>> of Feb 2018.
>>
>>
>> How did we get from welcoming a great name like Jakarta EE as the
>> replacement for Java EE to this thread
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/ee4j-community/msg01104.html ?
>>
>>
>> Jakarta working group was announced to the Java Community via Eclipse on
>> 3/9 https://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/jakarta.ee-wg/
>>
>>
>> EE4J Marketing <ee4j-marketing@xxxxxxxxxxx> Private mailing list. STILL…
>> Though conversations minutes are public, its access to those conversations
>> continues to be private to anyone not in the list of Vendors that are part
>> of the PMC.
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kOREpqsUlU4cSZ-0dxK2ImiMdI1a2oW3kPrkkSWHiKU/edit#heading=h.1zf3hph3gzru
>>
>>
>> Disclosure— I am a Triber.  Tomitribe has not been a part of any of those
>> Mktg conversations. They shouldn’t exist until  Jakarta mktg group is
>> created & give access to anyone interested to join, share & be part of the
>> changing waters.
>> Everyone in the Java community with good ideas must gain access & be
>> welcomed to become part of the braid of what could be an amazing new
>> branding home for Java EE, now Jakarta EE.
>>
>> Major issue with current Jakarta EE logo contest is how its deadline 3/21
>> was decided and how project was just brought forth from private chats.
>>
>> WTH entitles the PMC active in Mktg for Jakarta EE logo to even think
>> doing so is OK?
>>
>> Tomitribe didn’t vote or was consulted on why this project should be set
>> forward.  We will veto it then as we do now.
>>
>> The total lack of project transparency between the PMC is infuriating to
>> say the least.  We don’t even try to communicate with each other.
>> If PMC included cannot carefully police and analyze how we get to where we
>> are NOW on this design mess,  I cannot even imagine how frustating those
>> without access must feel.
>>
>> Anyone who cares, own feedback- and do so hopefully in the open.
>>
>> What comes next for Jakarta EE is not for EE4J PMC members to decide, but
>> for each single of you, Members of the active Java EE Community to decide.
>>
>> We are better than current mess. I want to see Jakarta EE logo be placed
>> on hold until healthy transparency is brought to the Community via EE4J
>> openness on April 24th. Until then, any work done thus far means and will
>> lead to nothing. The grounds are shaky and it doesn’t reflect a true
>> Community for the Future of Jakarta EE.
>>
>>
>> Amelia Eiras
>> https://twitter.com/ameliaeiras
>> Tribe: http://tomitribe.com      https://tribestream.io
>> OSS:  https://tomitribe.io        http://microprofile.io
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> James Roper
> Senior Octonaut
>
> Lightbend – Build reactive apps!
> Twitter: @jroper
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