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Today's Topics:
1. Re: GlassFish Tools f?r GlassFish 5 (Alexander Salvanos)
2. Re: ee4j-community Digest, Vol 2, Issue 187 (Werner Keil)
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:17:51 +0200
From: "Alexander Salvanos" <salvanos@xxxxxx>
To: ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] GlassFish Tools f?r GlassFish 5
Message-ID:
<trinity-89e1f6c6-f159-46a0-865f-dcb1aceaddba-1508944671696@3c-app-gmx-bs76>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:39:31 +0200
From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] ee4j-community Digest, Vol 2, Issue 187
Message-ID:
<CAAGawe2_dBWUsaFh7-TT6kM3+sQAkgDZoTG-esdQSPArsw7jwA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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Well Ivar represents exactly such employee of a rather large consultancy:
https://www.cybercom.com/About-Cybercom/About-the-Group/
It would not make him less neutral on particular solutions, thus why not
ask him to speak to his management if he does not represent his employer at
Eclipse Foundation already ;-)
Werner
On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 4:40 PM, <ee4j-community-request@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Send ee4j-community mailing list submissions to
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>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ee4j-community-request@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of ee4j-community digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. LTS and EE4J (Werner Keil)
> 2. Re: Red Hat committment to EE4J (Steve Millidge (Payara))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:32:09 +0200
> From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [ee4j-community] LTS and EE4J
> Message-ID:
> <CAAGawe3rYdUFdKs8pWseUS+YWCY0t_xAiG_SWD=Fri2DOh7gFw@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> Given Java SE and the JDK are about to follow support patterns exercised by
> Ubuntu or CloudBees/Jenkins with LTS versions of their subsequent projects,
> I wonder, if Eclipse LTS: https://lts.eclipse.org/ is still around and
> active?
>
> Having LTS versions of products and compatible implementations of EE4J or
> maybe also related projects like MicroProfile seems especially appealing on
> the Enterprise front while those using Eclipse IDE or similar tools may end
> up changing their tools more often, so LTS is probably of lesser value
> here.
>
> Given some extra cost, it may not matter much to individual committers and
> contributors but all the vendors behind EE4J, MicroProfile, etc. could
> benefit a lot if they offer Long Term Support for these technologies. It is
> likely to improve trust of those Enterprise customers who need a stable and
> reliable environment rather than "The next hot stuff" which may become
> outdated rather quickly in many cases.
>
> Regards,
>
> Werner
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> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 14:40:18 +0000
> From: "Steve Millidge (Payara)" <steve.millidge@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
> Message-ID:
> <VI1PR03MB1789BF7D4E409E66BE80F6DD91440@VI1PR03MB1789.
> eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Reza,
>
> I think ?vendors? will pick up a lot of the work. However not all EE4J
> vendors are or will be big global companies ?. Also it is not only vendors
> that employ developers with the ability to contribute.
>
> I think the word Community encompasses a lot more than the individual
> contributing in their spare time. Many of the companies that actually made
> ?tons of money out of this stuff? are actually not vendors but large
> consultancy companies and consumers of JavaEE technology that build
> bespoke, internal or ISV solutions on JavaEE. I would guess that the
> global/big regional consultancy companies make many times more money out of
> JavaEE and other Java frameworks than the vendors. In an ideal world we
> would see Consumers of the technology providing technical effort in driving
> forward specifications. Consumers IMHO actually know more about how the
> apis should look and work when developing applications than application
> server implementers do.
>
> Eclipse Foundation also has a specific membership type called ?Strategic
> Consumers? https://eclipse.org/membership/become_a_member/
> membershipTypes.php for organisations that are not vendors. I would love
> to see large consultancy companies, ISVs and End Users join as Strategic
> Consumers to drive forward EE4J and commit or sponsor development effort.
> Strategic Consumers are rewarded with reduced membership fees the more
> developers they commit! The move to Eclipse Foundation explicitly enables
> these sort of contributions. At the end of the day what is the bottom-line
> impact of a couple of developers working full time on EE4J for a
> consultancy company with 100s ? 1000s of developers compared to the
> benefits they receive through increased knowledge, influence and
> productivity?
>
> I encourage everybody out there that works in a large consultancy, large
> end user or large ISV to speak to their management about becoming a
> Strategic Member. Alternatively they could ensure their corporations buy
> support contracts and/or licenses from the vendors so they can contribute
> more ?. Alternatively they could sponsor individuals or employees to work
> exclusively on EE4J.
>
> This is a unique opportunity and a call to arms for all organisations that
> benefit from EE4J; vendors, ISVs, consultancy and end user organisations.
>
> Steve
>
>
> From: ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ee4j-community-
> bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Reza Rahman
> Sent: 16 October 2017 16:09
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
>
>
> I really hope for the sake of so many people around the world that depend
> on or should depend on Java EE that you are right.
>
> It dismays me when people that make/made tons of money out of this stuff
> look to people that make no money or pittances to move the technology
> forward (in fact in some cases these people sacrifice their family, free
> time and day jobs for years to help with this stuff in any way that they
> can). This is especially true for technologies like Servlet, JPA and so
> many others that Sun/Oracle has invested thousands of full time employee
> man-hours over many years for them to get anywhere.
>
> I can guarantee that other than a few die-hards like me in the short run,
> no one in the community will contribute anything until they see a serious
> commitment from vendors to move this work forward that at least somewhat
> matches what Oracle will quite obviously not do any more. Enough said.
> On 10/16/17 5:48 PM, Mike Milinkovich wrote:
> Reza,
>
> Mark Little said "...the community has to also step forward and help make
> this a success...".
>
> You said "...vendors will still need to do a lion's share of the work
> much...".
>
> These are not mutually exclusive statements. Both represent matters of
> degree. I have personally been pretty amazed at the energy shown on this
> list over the past week.
>
>
> On 2017-10-16 9:43 AM, reza_rahman wrote:
> While I am sure the community can pick some things up just like they did
> for Java EE 8, the reality is probably that most folks are just like me -
> we will try to do what we can when the demands of the day job (the stuff
> that actually helps pay the bills) and family (the stuff that actually
> really matters at the end of the day) is done. Realistically, this probably
> means about 15-20 hours a week on good weeks.
>
> What this means is that if this effort is to be in any way competitive,
> vendors will still need to do a lion's share of the work much like is the
> case for Spring, the Lightbend stack, etc. The secret sauce for Spring in
> particular is that Pivotal has no hesitation investing in the Spring stack
> even when they do not directly make money from it. If vendors do not have
> the similar mindset here, I agree it's wise to stop wasting any more
> effort, throw in the towel now and move on to bigger and better things.
> While an effort driven mostly by community can move forward for shorts
> bursts of time, the reality is that it is no match for professionals
> getting paid full time to do 50-60 hours of work each week.
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Mark Little <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx><mailto:mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 10/16/17 8:06 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx><mailto:
> ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
>
>
> On 12 Oct 2017, at 14:48, reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
> More specifically, is Red Hat going to continue to move CDI and Bean
> Validation forward?
>
> Yes, where forward movement makes sense.
>
>
> What about JPA? I don't think anyone in the community can realistically
> move that forward. I have similar concerns for Servlet (and perhaps a more
> reactive alternative to Servlet). These APIs are so complex that you really
> need dedicated folks that work for a vendor full time to move them forward.
>
> We will remain active in other JSRs and help with new efforts where it
> makes sense. But the community has to also step forward and help make this
> a success because if it remains solely in the hands of the vendors then
> maybe we should just roll everything back.
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "John D. Ament" <john.d.ament@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> john.d.ament@xxxxxxxxx>>
> Date: 10/12/17 7:44 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:
> ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
> Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Red Hat committment to EE4J
>
> Mark,
> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:35 AM Mark Little <mlittle@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mli
> ttle@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> For the avoidance of doubt and for those who haven't been paying
> attention :) Red Hat is committed to working for the continuing
> success of Java EE and now EE4J. We intend to put forward various
> individuals who may be relevant to lead various JSRs if no other
> appropriate community members step forward as well as the JSRs we lead
> currently. When the time is right (note, when not if) we'll also work
> to ensure EE4J and Eclipse MicroProfile collaborate in a meaningful
> manner and hopefully "merge" in whatever way is appropriate and
> determined by both communities.
>
> I'm assuming that the last "we" here is the MicroProfile community and not
> RedHat, correct?
>
>
> Mark.
>
>
>
>
>
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