| Re: [ee4j-community] Oracle Java EE8 Issue Tracker Abandonment |
I can't see why it should be hard to make business decisions. There is a final standard, Java EE 8, just develop software on top of it. As you say, your issue is _not_ a showstopper. So what?
And no, it is not Oracle who we rely in future, it will be the global developer community, including you and every other Java programmer able and willing to help. What we *wait* for is simply the point in time when the migration is over. But I think I already said that.
-Markus
From: ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Taylor
Sent: Montag, 4. Dezember 2017 18:34
To: EE4J community discussions
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Oracle Java EE8 Issue Tracker Abandonment
Markus,
I would love to contribute a patch, however my issue also involved a design decision question. Since there is nobody around to answer the question, I cant move forward with a patch. The issue itself is minor and not a showstopper. I guess I will just adopt the new mantra of "BE PATIENT". This seems to be the general consensus. If I see other developers submitting issues to the Jersey issue tracker I will no longer let them know that their issues are being queued up and wont be addressed until such time as more resources are made available to Dmitry. I'm assuming we are relying on Oracle to supply these resources?
It is tough to make business decisions based on such an open ended promise though, so respectfully I will be looking into other replacement technologies during this development hiatus.
-Eric
On Monday, December 4, 2017, 3:00:28 AM EST, Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Eric,
I can understand your position, but again, Oracle and the PMC just needs some more time. Yes, nobody right now will fix that issue, as the Jersey migration is just scheduled and will not be done within a few days. Until it is over, no contributions can be accepted, as a matter of fact. This is nothing new, as it was clearly told at EclipseCon that for several months there might be no progress due to a lot of organizational and legal work in the background. Whether or not we (the community) love this or not, will not speed it up. We just have to wait.
If you like to help, please prepare a fixing contribution and upload a patch to the tracker so it won't get lost meanwhile. I am sure a good patch will definitively be picked up by the new project team at Eclipse Foundation *once the migration is over*. If you don't have signed an ECA, please do that before.
-Markus
(JSR 339, JSR 370)
From: ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Taylor
Sent: Sonntag, 3. Dezember 2017 20:20
To: EE4J community discussions
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Oracle Java EE8 Issue Tracker Abandonment
Werner,
Specifically I was referring to Jersey and Yasson, maybe I should have clarified as being reference implementations instead of specs. I hope those are the exception and not the norm. To reiterate what Reza said, I am not concerned with the migration process from a pure developer/customer standpoint, that is above my pay grade. I am concerned with the fact that people have been posting to the Jersey issue tracker for months with no recognition from any of the maintainers. The sad part is there are people monitoring those issue trackers. I know this because as soon as I mentioned the fact that the issue tracker and project seemed to be dying, suddenly people those people decide it is worth their time to chime in and defend the project's inactivity. They then added labels to a couple of issues to show the appearance of activity, only to disappear again with nothing actually been accomplished. These are the kind of responses we get: https://github.com/jersey/jersey/issues/3632. Posting blog links from September is not exactly a Java EE8 confidence booster.
-Eric
On Sunday, December 3, 2017, 12:34:35 PM EST, reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I actually plan to create just such a thing, but not just for me individually. Instead I prefer we do this together as a community in the Java EE Guardians. It needs to be part of a broader discussion of how to align with EE4J. A small part of that discussion is my role in the Java EE Guardians.
I hope to get these conversations started and achieve consensus by the beginning of January at the latest. The first priority I am actively working on right now is a joint open letter on branding, packaging and JCP alignment.
There is nothing saying you should wait for any of that. As long as you have bandwidth, I encourage you to move full steam ahead with EE4J.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 12/3/17 12:19 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: 'Reza Rahman' <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [ee4j-community] Oracle Java EE8 Issue Tracker Abandonment
Reza,
can you please list the projects you want to contribute to, and a short (few words) reason for being added (like "Expert Group Member" or "JUG Leader" or whatever)? I will forward to my "uplinks"; maybe this speeds up things.
-Markus
From: ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of reza_rahman
Sent: Sonntag, 3. Dezember 2017 18:00
To: EE4J community discussions
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Oracle Java EE8 Issue Tracker Abandonment
Thanks for sharing this.
Is it an honest position to say the listed committers and especially leads are committing to moving the underlying technology forward? The reason I ask is that I asked to be added as a committer myself but the honest reality is that I have nowhere near the bandwidth at the moment to make major contributions. It particularly raises an eyebrow that there is a very high degree of overlap with people across projects.
That said, the fact that there are leads and committers listed is helpful regardless.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Ivar Grimstad <ivar.grimstad@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 12/3/17 5:05 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Oracle Java EE8 Issue Tracker Abandonment
You can follow project activity for all Eclipse projects here: https://www.eclipse.org/projects/project_activity.php
Ivar
On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 9:03 AM Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Reza,
be assured, behind the scenes people do work on the migration. At least I do know that for some of the projects, in particular Jersey. A first bunch of projects is currently in progress, other bunches will follow. But yes, certainly it would be really great to have a weekly updated web site showing the content that is currently moved and the particular progress (like "Jersey: xx%") so this is publicly trackable. I CC'ed PMC head Ivar Grimstad about this, maybe he can trigger the Eclipse Foundation to set up such a web site?
-Markus
From: ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Reza Rahman
Sent: Samstag, 2. Dezember 2017 19:36
To: EE4J community discussions
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Oracle Java EE8 Issue Tracker Abandonment
This is a very real concern for many customers. We heard the same concern at JavaOne during EE4J discussions. As I have said for a while now, the best way to address this is a realistic roadmap for EE4J including some kind of commitment, hopefully including from Oracle, as to who is taking ownership of moving which Java EE specification forward. Simply continuing to say it will take time to figure out risks people continuing to worry more and more about the future of Java EE.
At least a simple list of who wants to move which specification forward should not be so hard for a technology and market as mature as Java EE.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 2, 2017, at 1:20 PM, Eric Taylor <etay5995@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Does anyone want to address the issue of the abandonment of the Issue Trackers for major EE8 specifications? Specifically the Jersey and Yasson issue trackers seem to be dead or dying. I briefly corresponded with Dmitry Kornilov regarding the state of the Jersey issue tracker, and essentially he told me that most of the original employee developers are no longer contributing or even working at Oracle any more. He told me he was working on finding new developers, but this was over a month ago and frankly I have begun to think that Java EE8 is heading down the neglected path that EE7 was on. Issues are piling up and there is no communication between developers to even help facilitate patching and submitting pull requests. Does Oracle have any responsibility left in this, or have they just dumped Java EE8 in the Eclipse Foundation's hands and said "Good luck!"?
Is there a central point of contact regarding EE8 or is communication fragmented across each specification? Should I abandon server side Java and just start using server side _javascript_ (node.js)? Just kidding on the last part. ;)
Thanks,
Eric
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Java Champion, JCP EC/EG Member, EE4J PMC, JUG Leader
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