| Re: [ee4j-community] Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects |
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects (Rudy De Busscher)
2. Re: Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects (Bill Shannon)
3. Re: Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects (Bill Shannon)
4. Re: Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects (arjan tijms)
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 20:11:13 +0100
From: Rudy De Busscher <rdebusscher@xxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects
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<CAL+wt-7hcaZqc92H_bXdJj01SgbHRp3xoMXyisg397ODe_ j=7g@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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I do not find the mail to the mailing list anymore, but there was mentioned
that the "javax.*" namespace can be used for existing projects WITHIN the
JCP.
Maybe Oracle will rescue the JCP process which was questioned already
several times here in the mailing list be tying the 2 together?
Rudy
On 13 November 2017 at 19:33, Heiko Rupp <hrupp@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 13 Nov 2017, at 19:01, Markus KARG wrote:
>
> I assume what people like to hear is not "SHOULD BE allowed" but a clear
>> statement of Oracle that reads "it IS allowed".
>>
>
> This is what David and Dimitry were saying at ECE when I
> asked "can servlet version 7 still use javax.servlet" and they
> answered with a clear yes.
> I agree though, that it would be good to get this in clear
> writing from Oracle. Perhaps with concrete examples
> about what is allowed and what not.
>
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 11:34:23 -0800
From: Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Rudy De
Busscher <rdebusscher@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects
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Rudy De Busscher wrote on 11/13/17 11:11 AM:
> I do not find the mail to the mailing list anymore, but there was mentioned
> that the "javax.*" namespace can be used for existing projects WITHIN the JCP.
Yes, as I said 10 days ago:
> Any API that continues to evolve through the JCP can continue to use javax.*
> package names as it always has.
Nothing about this move of projects to the Eclipse Foundation changes anything
about how the JCP operates or the rules for projects using the JCP.? It's only
projects that choose *not* to use the JCP that might be subject to different, to
be decided, rules.
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 11:35:08 -0800
From: Bill Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects
Message-ID: <8d7403ff-43be-64cf-2826-7881ea76ce4e@xxxxxxxxxx >
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reza_rahman wrote on 11/13/17 10:35 AM:
> You are not alone. Many folks in the community would like to understand vendor
> positions too. Whether Oracle respects those positions is another matter and
> pretty much everyone gets that. The first step is actually even more basic -
> understanding if numerous community requests have even been heard and understood.
>
Yes, heard and understood.
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:01:44 +0100
From: arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects
Message-ID:
<CAE=-AhB3HURu6JP5pNWq3nfW50CPkB2uB9bj_7FESRWxWau+wg@mail. >gmail.com
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Hi,
On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 10:16 PM, Martijn Verburg <martijnverburg@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and say that sadly the Java EE
> brand is seen as a negative thing.
>
Well, yes and no.
As I mentioned earlier, Java EE is for some strongly associated with the
concept of application servers, and application servers on their turn are
for a subset of those associated with specifically WebSphere 6, which on
its turn is associated with keeping developers constrained (unable to make
any choices, just deliver code as wars or ears). Whether any of this is
actually true or logical in practice barely matters, as people seem to have
this perception, which is what matters most.
Obviously though, there are communities of both competing products and
actual competitors that very likely have an interest in keeping this
negativity alive. What's to say any new name would not be targeted right
away with the same kind of negative press?
Additionally, Java EE *is* a well known brand, people have heard about it,
thousands of articles exists about it, hundreds of books, etc etc.
Companies do know it, and do ask for it.
If/when a new name is chosen we shouldn't forget having to guard in some
way against new negativity and to make the name as well known as Java EE
was.
Kind regards,
Arjan Tijms
> Unfortunately we were never able to shake off the dire reputation of J2EE,
> despite the vast improvements to the platform.
>
> I think a clean break is actually a *good* thing.
>
> Cheers,
> Martijn
>
> On 12 November 2017 at 18:05, reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I am very glad someone like yourself from the vendor/EC side see this as
>> an issue and is willing to publicly identify this as an issue.
>>
>> This is by far one of the biggest issues we have identified so far in the
>> Java EE Guardians community. As an initial step, we have asked the
>> community to send Oracle and other key EE4J stakeholders direct and
>> personal feedback on this: https://form.jotform.com/72648425384161 . I
>> suspect it is the sole matter with regards to EE4J that these folks have
>> been reached out to about the most.
>>
>> Unfortunately clearly the community has still not really been heard on
>> this matter. While I am sure the root cause of this issue is Oracle's legal
>> and branding departments being overly rigid, this is something that Oracle
>> executives can intervene on if they deemed it worthy of solving.
>>
>> From the Java EE Guardians community, our likely next steps are to arrive
>> at a joint open letter asking EE4J stakeholders to address this issue -
>> Oracle being the main party of our request. Any support you can lend us in
>> this regard, even if only moral, would be helpful and highly appreciated.
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Greg Luck <gluck@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: 11/3/17 2:07 PM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [ee4j-community] Use of javax.* in new EE4J projects
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Had a call with Mike today about moving JCache across to EE4J.
>>
>> We have JCache 1.1 in the JCP review process now and it should be out in
>> a few weeks? time. So we could consider moving after that point.
>>
>> The biggest issue to me is that, at least currently, any new APIs will
>> not be allowed to use javax. Today we use javax.cache. This would mean that
>> JCache 2 would need to change its package name. We have 13 implementations
>> out there and a huge amount of user code that uses javax.cache. This would
>> be an extremely disruptive change.
>>
>> In our case Oracle is a copyright owner along with myself for the spec.
>> As an owner, Oracle if they wished, should be able to allow JCache 2 to
>> continue to use the javax.cache package even though the process has changed
>> from JCP to the yet unnamed and to be formed Eclipse Community Process.
>>
>> Interested in anyone?s thoughts on this.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Greg Luck
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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