Re: [eclipse-dev] Ant build submission -- down leveling plugins versions

[Darin Wright <Darin_Wright@xxxxxxxxxx>]

We use bundle versions to describe changes in bundles. In this case the 
description was wrong - it said API was added when it was not. Thus, I 
think it is important to fix this for the 3.4 release. This gets tricky 
since the description of the API (version number) is also API. So, I also 
agree that we should have broadcast the change and had PMC approval (so 
that was my fault).

I think issues such as this just show how hard it is to get compatibility 
right. It's not the fault of the tool - I think we could actually use more 
tooling in this area. For example, if the tooling performed required 
bundle version analysis then this sort of problem would be avoided - the 
tooling would tell you that you are not using any new API from ant, and 
that you can leave your required bundle version at the previous level.

Darin Wright




David M Williams <david_williams@xxxxxxxxxx> 
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05/12/2008 02:56 AM
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Subject
[eclipse-dev] Ant build submission -- down leveling plugins     versions 
after API freeze







I don't want to start a flame war ... well, I don't really care :) and may 
even I do because things like this upset me so much. 

It seems to me there's been several cases (already) of these new tools 
overriding plain 'ol common sense and if the tools do not allow you to use 
common sense (or, even encourage you to use your own judgement), then 
there's a flaw in your tools! 

I have no idea why it was so important to fix this small error in 
versioning this late, which to me is equivalent to an API change - and, 
honestly, I hope someone tells me why it is so beneficial in comparison to 
the great costs: 

By "back leveling" a much used plugin such as org.eclipse.ant.core not 
only broke us in WTP (requiring several hours of "recovery time" ... 
several people independently discovering it , spending 30 - 60 minutes 
figuring out what was wrong, l... a day or two of  failed builds because 
we hadn't  yet reacted to the breaking back leveling, so our builds would 
break immediately, and then people had to wait around or figure out what 
to do instead of that they had planned to do since there was no new build, 
and then finally 15 minutes for someone to finally fix. So ... let's be 
conservative, and say this impacts only 10 to 30 other projects (and, 
could be in the hundreds, in my company alone!)  ...  each losing several 
hours of real time and a one or two days of elapsed time due to failed 
builds. Even with my lack of financial knowledge and fumbling math skills 
I can tell the $10,000 to $50,000 dollars this cost (minimum) must mean it 
was a wonderfully important fix and I can't wait to hear the explanation 
of why is is worth all our companies spending so much money to recover 
from this later breaking change. It's very exciting to hear of these grand 
fixes which we only narrowly missed. 

But, after I get some sleep, I'll probably forget the excitement simply 
recommend you  revert your decision and do the right, common sense thing 
and never back level version numbers after API freeze.  Is that not 
obvious? 

Oh, and I really do not like flame wars, but am always open to 
constructive criticism or just plain 'ol education if I am the one missing 
the obvious. 







----- Forwarded by David M Williams/Raleigh/IBM on 05/12/2008 03:24 AM 
----- 
From: 
Michael Rennie <Michael_Rennie@xxxxxxxxxx> 
To: 
platform-releng-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx 
Date: 
05/09/2008 05:08 PM 
Subject: 
[platform-releng-dev] Ant build submission




Ant will contribute the following fixes:

+ Bug 231305. external tools bundle version not correct (FIXED)

The following projects have changed:
org.eclipse.ant.core
org.eclipse.ui.externaltools

Michael Rennie _______________________________________________
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