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Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
|
You might still be able to use parts of
e.g. 'org.eclipse.ui' with 1.3 (e.g. SWT) but other bundles/functionality
will fail to load when actually used.
The PMC already noticed that the current
information in the plan should be improved but did not yet change it. See
bug
377028 for details.
Dani
From:
Lars Vogel <lars.vogel@xxxxxxxxx>
To:
Cross project issues
<cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
04.09.2013 13:54
Subject:
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev]
Has Java 5 Platform support been discontinued?
Sent by:
cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
It looks to me that some org.eclipse.ui.* plug-ins require
an BREE update in this case. I think a plug-in cannot require a lower Java
version than a plug-in which it requires as dependency. SWT is a special
case as it has no plug-in dependencies.
For example org.eclipse.ui.view defined a BREE of J2SE-1.4.
org.eclipse.ui defines a BREE of J2SE-1.3. But both depend on org.eclipse.core.runtime
which currently defines J2SE-1.5 (should that be JavaSE-1.6 according
to this discussion?).
Best regards, Lars
2013/9/4 Daniel Megert <daniel_megert@xxxxxxxxxx>
> The decisions on what
targets to support are rarely made on bundle-by-bundle basis because a
single bundle does not represent a meaningful usecase. It really does pay
to go through all the bundles and update the requirements when a decision
is made to change > these for a broader component.
SWT for example can easily be used stand-alone
and it's just wrong to force every client to use JRE 6 just because the
Eclipse IDE as a whole requires it. Increasing the BREE for low-level bundles
can affect many people/projects as you can well see in Luna, where Equinox
increased to 'JavaSE-1.6' (see bug
416432 for discussion). Another
counterexample is JDT which has bundles that require JRE 7. If we would
take your approach, we would switch the BREE for all (at least JDT) bundles
to 'JavaSE-1.7'.
Dani
From: "Konstantin
Komissarchik" <konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>
To:
"'Cross project issues'"
<cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:
03.09.2013 18:45
Subject:
Re: [cross-project-issues-dev]
Has Java
5 Platform
support been discontinued?
Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
And this is exactly why a
granular approach to supported targets is a bad idea. While it does offer
some more flexibility in certain situations, it causes massive confusion
as to what’s supported overall.
The decisions on what targets to support are rarely made on bundle-by-bundle
basis because a single bundle does not represent a meaningful usecase.
It really does pay to go through all the bundles and update the requirements
when a decision is made to change these for a broader component.
- Konstantin
From: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
] On Behalf Of Ed Willink
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:35 AM
To: Cross project issues
Subject: Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support
been discontinued?
Hi
I must be very dense. Where does it say "The
platform requires Java 6".
Regards
Ed Willink
On 03/09/2013 17:19, John Arthorne wrote:
I can't think of any way to be clearer than I already have. The platform
requires Java 6, and it has required Java 6 for several years. Next time
I do a plan update I will try to make that even clearer.
John
From: Ed Willink
<ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Cross project
issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date: 09/03/2013
10:47 AM
Subject: Re:
[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5
Platform support
been discontinued?
Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Hi
I'm sorry John but you are dodging the issue. There is far too much this
is what we do, and very little of this is what we require.
Most of the Eclipse SDK is "pure"
Java code and has no direct dependence on the underlying operating system.
The chief dependence is therefore on the Java Platform itself. Portions
are targeted to specific classes of operating environments, requiring their
source code to only reference facilities available in particular class
libraries (e.g. J2ME Foundation 1.1, J2SE 1.4, Java 5, etc).
In general, the 4.3 release of
the Eclipse Project is developed on a mix of Java SE 6 and Java SE 7 VMs.
As such, the Eclipse SDK as a whole is targeted at all modern, desktop
Java VMs. Most functionality is available for Java SE 6 level development
everywhere, and extended development capabilities are made available on
the VMs that support them.
Yes there have been a few bundles
that needed 1.6 for some time, but it seems like the critical parts of
the platform have been 1.5. The list on http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix
still shows very little that needs 1.6, so I see no statement that the
platform needs 1.6.
I delivered my Indigo, Juno and Kepler releases as Java 5 minimum requirement.
Clearly the platform and many projects were highly Java 5 tolerant.
There should perhaps be a separate overall statement at the top that 1.6
is the minimum requirement (although some bundles may be more tolerant).
Or org.eclipse.core.* needs to change to 1.6
Regards
Ed Willink
On 03/09/2013 14:57, John Arthorne wrote:
I seem to have a knack for definitive statements lately so I'll take a
try at this. The last Eclipse Platform release to officially support Java
5 was 3.6/Helios. We have not run our tests against Java 5 for several
years and can make no claim that it works. Since Platform 3.8 it has certainly
been impossible to run the complete platform using Java 5 due to Jetty
dependency on Java 6 (and possibly other bundles). Oracle Java end of life
was in 2009 (in fact Oracle Java 6 is also past end of life now). Some
individual bundles may still support older runtimes but at this point they
are the exception rather than the norm. The list of bundle EE levels is
updated with each plan revision, but as long as they are within the scope
of the current list of reference platforms they are not generally announced
individually.
John
From: Ed Willink
<ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Cross project
issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date: 09/03/2013
09:24 AM
Subject: Re:
[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform
support been
discontinued?
Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Hi
I am doing my best to continue support for existing functionality, so in
the absence of a clear Eclipse statement that Java 5 support is terminated,
I feel I have to continue to keep close to 5.
Guava changing to Java 6 was awkward.
OSGI changing to Java 6 is very close to a mandatory downstream consequence.
Can we please have a clear policy statement rather than a secretive creep.
I don't mind changing to Java 6, it probably makes life easier. But I hate
this are we 5 or 6 limbo?
Regards
Ed Willink
On 03/09/2013 13:51, David M Williams wrote:
I probably should have mentioned, there are several bugs we are still trying
to work through, where the Tycho/Maven build picks a different "compiler
level" than the way PDE used to it ... and not always in the way we
intend, for example,
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=415116
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=411419
I am not sure if this is related to the issue you are seeing ... or if
merely confirms yet another "unannounced change" ... but I don't
think it changes the bottom line:
If you want things different than they are, open a bug or comment on an
existing one. If it is merely a matter that you don't really care, but
you have to change your test scripts, then all I can say is "sorry".
From: Ed Willink
<ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Cross project
issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Date: 09/03/2013
08:34 AM
Subject: Re:
[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support
been discontinued?
Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Hi Szymon
Your list omits the 'culprit'.
It is org.eclipse.osgi.util.NLS that is now Java 6 putting paid to all
attempts at internationalization with Java 5.
Regards
Ed Willink
On 02/09/2013 16:41, Szymon Ptaszkiewicz wrote:
> See
> http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse#appendix
> for the table of minimum EE per bundle.
>
> Szymon
>
>
>
>
> From: David
M Williams <david_williams@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Cross
project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 2013-09-02
17:34
> Subject: Re:
[cross-project-issues-dev] Has Java 5 Platform support
> been
discontinued?
> Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
>> So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5.
> Yes and no. As a whole, such for whole Eclipse SDK, even Kepler (If
not
> Juno) said "Java 6 required", although there were always
some bundles (and
> combination of bundles) that supported lower VMs.
>
>> Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change?
> Probably not announced well. It has been discussed at status meetings,
and
> various bugzillas, that some previous "1.4" or "1.5"
bundles were moving to
> "1.5" or "1.6", but I am not sure there is yet
a comprehensive list of
> those that have. (Other than looking in the manifests themselves).
>
> I think it's been assumed "no one cares about Java 1.5 any longer"
... so,
> if anyone does (i.e. you have requirements or customers with requirements
> for 1.5), then I suggest you open a bug on the specific use-case you
need
> to support on 1.5 and what bundle changes prevent that. I'm sure the
> committers for those components would be willing to re-consider if
it
> impacts adopters.
>
> But, the default assumption for testing should be "1.6"
... would be my
> personal advice.
>
> HTH
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ed Willink <ed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Cross project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
> Date: 09/02/2013 11:02 AM
> Subject: [cross-project-issues-dev] Has
Java 5 Platform support been
> discontinued?
> Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> Using a recent (post M1) platform I-build some of my unit tests now
fail
> with a NoClassDef found for Platform.
>
> Changing the launch configuration to force JVM 6 and the tests run
fine.
>
> So it seems that the Platform no longer supports Java 5.
>
> Is this intentional and an unannounced policy change?
>
> Regards
>
> Ed Willink
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