I believe that Steve Millidge has outlined some nice goals for the alliance, and they echo my thoughts. As a long time Java EE developer and community member, I think that we really need to formulate the wording correctly when outlining the positions for both MicroProfile and Jakarta EE. Those of us who have been using Java EE for a long time know that there is indeed a slow moving standard, but it does evolve over time.
That said, Jakarta EE will likely evolve at a much faster pace than Java EE, and is aiming to become much more cloud native, so it is not fully true to say that Jakarta EE will "target incremental upgrades to monolithic deployments". It may also be steering the ship into the wrong direction by stating that "winning new developers would have to happen with MicroProfile and LiteProfile". We do not want to imply to newcomers that Jakarta EE is older and slow moving. Rather, we should be conveying the message that it is a standard which is used throughout the industry. As such, it may evolve at a slower pace than MicroProfile, but still contains cloud-native/modern APIs that can be used to build modern applications and services.
That said, I believe that the slides are certainly leaning in the correct direction, but we definitely should not pit MicroProfile vs Jakarta EE in any way. Right now some of the verbiage seems to do just that. Doing so will lead to market confusion and it will also steer newcomers to MicroProfile, even though Jakarta EE may be a more suitable fit for their particular use case. The two platforms should not compete at all, but rather, they should work hand-in-hand and they should be perceived as complimentary to each other.
I do think it is correct to continue maintaining MicroProfile separately from Jakarta EE so that they can evolve on a different schedule. However, in my opinion, MicroProfile I think should be considered as a "Microservice Platform" that utilizes some Jakarta EE specifications. New features may come to MicroProfile first, as it should continue to evolve at a faster pace, and some of those features could eventually make it into Jakarta EE as a standard for the full platform. However, Jakarta EE will also have other new features aside from those that are added to MicroProfile. They will evolve separately, but should always be complimentary. Also as Steve mentioned, it is important that vendors have the ability to support both platforms in the same product.
I want to congratulate the entire Java Enterprise community...it is definitely a great time to be an enterprise developer for the Java Platform! Great work to all involved! On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:08 AM, Steve Millidge (Payara) <steve.millidge@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I will add some specific comments on the presentation. Although I think it is better to outline thoughts on my overall goals.
Almost a year ago I wrote a blog calling for absorbing the MicroProfile apis into the Jakarta EE working group rather than creating a new working group
MicroProfile and Jakarta EE Technical Alignment (payara.fish). Although the working group question is moot I think a number of the thoughts there for example “profiles
as brands” are somewhat similar to some of the thoughts in the presentation.
Some of my goals are;
We don’t create market confusion.
We must avoid MicroProfile and Jakarta EE being perceived as competing.
It must be easy to combine MicroProfile and Jakarta EE apis into a single application.
We must be able to support the latest MicroProfile Platform and the latest Jakarta EE platform in the same product.
Marketing of MicroProfile and Jakarta EE should not be against each other i.e. marketing of one should not put the other in a negative connotation e.g. lite implies heavy.
Just my first thoughts.
Steve
From: cn4j-alliance <cn4j-alliance-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Scott Stark
Sent: 07 January 2021 17:43
To: cn4j-alliance@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [cn4j-alliance] Thoughts on the CN4J purpose
Here are some initial thoughts on what CN4J needs to address and how that might happen. These are largely Red Hat's current views. The document is open to anyone with the link. Feel free to comment here or in
the document.
This will be a lengthy discussion that we expect to involve members of both Jakarta and MicroProfile communities as well as their respective committees.
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