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[wtp-pmc] Agenda for WTP PMC November 13, 2006 telecon

Call info:

  • Tollfree in the US: 866-214-3176
  • Alternate: 404-827-9098
  • Access code: 8870689#

Call Time: 7am PDT / 10am PDT

 

Regrets: Bob Goodman (presenting at AJAX experience) and Raghu (Oracle Open World)

 

Agenda:

  • Community [Pieter]
    • EclipseCon tutorials – see last week’s minutes; I also attached a PPT I made up for my own understanding which you might find useful
  • Process issues [Tim]
    • PHP’s use of WTP (see attached thread)
  • Requirements and 2.0 Planning
    • Do we need to publicize our EMF / Java SE 6 plans more widely?
  • 1.5.2 patches, 1.5.3, and 2.0 Status [David]
    • 162974 on the 1.5.2 update site
    • 1.5.3 planning
    • 2.0 / Europa status
  • ATF [Robert]
  • Dali/JPA [Neil]
  • JSF [Raghu]

 

Also, please reply-all with additional topics; I’m still catching up on email after vacation (around 5000 messages…gulp) so apologies in advance if I’m missing anything.

From: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Robert Goodman [goodmanr@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 5:01 PM
To: WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,and Group discussions)
Cc: WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,and Group discussions); wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [wtp-pmc] Comment on section 1.7.2.4 PHP Tools Project of theWeb Tools Platform 2.0 Plan

Attachments: ATT47320210.txt

Lawrence

I and Brian Burns and a number of phone conferences with Tim Deboer where we discuss the number of issues that PHP team has with the server. Brian and I worked on the PHP IDE. Brian did most of the HTTP Server based on the WTP infrastructure. Neither Brian or I are working on the PHP IDE anymore.

You made the statement that WTP users are already familiar with WTP serve tools, but PHP users are not. PHP developers are not J2EE developers. The simple fact is that the WTP server GUIs are not very intuitive. To change a server configuration after it is created, you have to go to the server view, select a server, right click on the server and select open. There are people who have used eclipse that didn't know this is how it worked until I told them. We ran into other problems like the publishing model seemed to be baked into the based infrastructure and wasn't easily extended/changed.

I can set up a meeting, but does WTP really have resources to do anything about it.  


    thanks
     Bob


Robert Goodman
IBM Emerging Technologies
goodmanr@xxxxxxxxxx
512-838-8824    T.L. 678-8824


Lawrence Mandel <lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

11/12/2006 10:59 PM

Please respond to
"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To
"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Subject
Re: [wtp-pmc] Comment on section 1.7.2.4 PHP Tools Project of the Web        Tools Platform 2.0 Plan






Bob,

I'm not familiar with the background for this issue but this sounds like a bad situation to me. I think where possible projects should communicate and work together to avoid duplicating function. WRT servers, I think Eclipse should have one way to create and control servers as users will likely want to install both Java and PHP Web development tools. As WTP users are already familiar with the WTP server tools I really think that creating another way to control servers for PHP is a mistake. (Actually, I think it's a mistake for the PHP project to not seamlessly integrate with WTP as I think Eclipse users will expect it to.) Remember, many users will install Eclipse, WTP and PHP and expect all the projects to work together.

Instead of creating a competing server framework in the PHP project, which seems to me to be out of scope for the project (the creation review slides for the project state one of the goals is to "Leverage the existing Web Tools Project in providing developers with PHP capabilities" [1]), I'd like to see the PHP committers work with the WTP server tools team. Can you set up a meeting between the two teams to discuss the limitations/problems the PHP team is having with the server tools? (Has this call already happened?)

[1] http://www.eclipse.org/php/documents/PHP%20IDE%20-%20creation%20review.pdf

Thanks,

Lawrence Mandel

Software Developer
IBM Rational Software
Phone: 905 - 413 - 3814   Fax: 905 - 413 - 4920
lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx

Robert Goodman <goodmanr@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

11/12/2006 10:39 PM

Please respond to
"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To
wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
cc
Subject
[wtp-pmc] Comment on section 1.7.2.4 PHP Tools Project of the Web Tools Platform 2.0 Plan








The PHP tools project has dropped or is planning to dropped support for the Apache Server built on top of the WTP server infrastructure. The PHP team is building there own Apache server support which isn't based on the WTP server infrastructure. ATF has picked up the Apache Server based on the WTP infrastructure and integrated it into ATF. In the process the ATF team changed the GUIs back to match the WTP server GUIs for creating a Server. The PHP team didn't think that the WTP GUIs were very intuitive. Since these GUIs are baked into the WTP infrastructure, changing the GUIs caused a number of problems. Eventually the PHP team decided to move off the WTP server infrastructure.

  Thanks
     Bob

Robert Goodman
IBM Emerging Technologies
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Attachment: EclipseCon 2007 WTP Tutorial Submissions.ppt
Description: EclipseCon 2007 WTP Tutorial Submissions.ppt

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