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[wtp-pmc] Agenda for Tuesday, May 23rd, 2006 telecon

Call Info: 866-214-3176 or 404-827-9098. Access code 8870689.

Call time: 7-8am PDT.



  • Community
    • JavaOne report
  • Procedural Items
    • Dali move review reminder (Wed, 8am PDT / 11am EDT)
    • Release review – see
      1. Discuss options for providing the 1.0 à 1.5 API change summary at and where/how to link it into the WTP site. David’s summary is the only “non-empty” one I’ve received so far (see attached).
    • PMC nominations
      1. I would like to nominate Craig Becker as a PMC member to represent the ATF project. Craig has been attending our calls and effectively functioning in this role now for several months, and is the obvious person to represent this incubating project at the project leadership level.
      2. Contingent on a successful move review Wednesday, I would like to nominate Neil Hauge as a PMC member to represent the Dali sub-project. Neil has been serving in this capacity for some time and adds another member company’s perspective to the WTP PMC.
  • Requirements (Jochen)
  • 1.0.3
  • 1.5 / Callisto / RC3 status
    • Rampdown process discussion. There seems to be general agreement among the component leads (expressed in last week’s status call; see attached) that the rate of change is too high to initiate our planned PMC approval process this week. Chris’ suggestion is to support “post review” for now. A revised rampdown process might look like this:
      1. Now-5/31 (RC4) – component lead checkin approval and “post hoc” PMC member review
      2. 6/1-6/10 (no milestone) – same process (do we want to limit by priority/severity here?)
      3. 6/10-6/20 (RC5) – standard (1.0.3-style) PMC pre-approval with “post hoc” approval by downstream projects
      4. 6/21-6/28 (RC6) – Emergency regression/Callisto-level issues only. PMC approval and x-team notification required for any checkins.
      5. 6/28-6/30 (GA) – release activities only; Callisto-wide freeze in place
  • Architecture (David)
  • JSF (Raghu)
    • Discuss release review dates and readiness
  • Dali (Neil)
    • Discuss release review dates and readiness
  • ATF (Craig)
  • Additional topics
    • Clarify WTP-level requirements for JSF and Dali release (versus incubation exit)
    • Support tool (Arthur) – see attached email thread for background
    • Interesting discussion of tracking bug-to-release-in-which-fix-is-planned on wtp-dev, but suggest we defer it given the number of other topics for discussion today.






Craig Becker has been invited to the WTP PMC call to represent ATF.

Dali leadership (Shaun/Neil) has a standing invite through incubation exit to join the calls.


From: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Krause, Jochen [jkrause@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 7:41 PM
To: WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements, and Group discussions)
Subject: AW: [wtp-pmc] Fw: [wtp-dev] Minutes of the WTP Status Telecon,2006-05-18

Attachments: ATT1018661.txt
+1 for Chris proposal

Von: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Chris Brealey
Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Mai 2006 19:50
An: wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Kathy Chan
Betreff: [wtp-pmc] Fw: [wtp-dev] Minutes of the WTP Status Telecon,2006-05-18

Tim, David, Jochen, Arthur, Naci and Raghu,
I was unable to attend the WTP status meeting yesterday, but from a chat with Kathy and reading the minutes, I understand the question of PMC approval for RC4 came up.

I'm of much same opinion as Kosta's. At latest count, we have 26 candidates for WTP 1.5, and 16 candidates for WTP 1.5.1 (and, FYI, we have started using the Status Whiteboard field to track our candidates). I don't know whether this is a relatively large, or small, number; however, the majority of these bugs are what I'd characterize as usability and functional bugs that individually are not critical (most are normal or major), but that collectively might leave the impression of questionable quality - a subject of general concern.

I don't want to suggest we abandon PMC approval entirely, but don't relish the idea of a process involving a minimum 24-hour voting cycle to get fixes into the build. My two cents' worth is for component leads to judiciously approve bugs for commit/release, include appropriate impact/risk assessments in the bugs, and have the PMC "post-approve" - meaning if the PMC disagrees with a bug that has been committed/released - hopefully a rare case - the component team in question can always reverse the fix.

There are my thoughts on it for now. I'm out on vacation until May 29, so in my absence, Kathy is acting component lead for Web services.

Thanks much,
Cheers - CB.

Chris Brealey
Senior Advisory Technical Manager, Rational Java Web Services, IBM Canada Ltd.
D3-275, D3/ENX/8200/MKM, 8200 Warden Avenue, Markham, Ontario, Canada, L6G 1C7
cbrealey@xxxxxxxxxx, 905.413.6038, tieline:969.6038, fax:905.413.4920

----- Forwarded by Chris Brealey/Toronto/IBM on 05/19/2006 10:07 AM -----
Lawrence Mandel/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
Sent by: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

05/18/2006 03:52 PM

Please respond to
"General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>

"General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
[wtp-dev] Minutes of the WTP Status Telecon, 2006-05-18

See WTP Status Telecons [1] for more information.



Ted Bashor

Chuck Bridgham

Kathy Chan

Keith Chong

Nitin Dahyabhai
Tim DeBoer

Larry Dunnell

Rob Frost

Larry Issacs

Konstantin Komissarchik
John Lanuti

Lawrence Mandel

Kate Price

Tim Wagner

David Williams

Amy Wu


1. Actions Items - Lawrence Mandel

Active Items

The following actions items showed some activity last week. [1]
136716 nor P3 PC csalter@xxxxxxxxxx CLOS FIXE [action] XML: Review and identify changes in WTP 1.5 that...
136717 nor P3 PC katep@xxxxxxxxxx CLOS FIXE [action] WS: Review and identify changes in WTP 1.5 that ...

3 bugs found.

Open Items

The following action items are currently open [2]. Action items owners should update their status in Bugzilla prior to the status telecon. Thx.

[action] Konstantin - document the workaround in the bug and move it off the list. Also confirm that this problem will be addressed in 2.0.
*note: this action does not have a corresponding bugzilla entry

Kosta: Done.



2. WTP 1.0.3 Status - David Williams

David: I have not restarted the build. The build will likely resume this weekend once RC3 is done. Naci and I have some changes to make this Friday.
Ted: Are we planning to have an official 1.0.3 smoke tested build each week?
David: I think we should do a weekly Ibuild with smoke tests starting next week.

2.1 WTP 1.0.3 approved bugs [1] - Lawrence Mandel


3. WTP 1.5 Status

3.1 WTP 1.5 Build Status - David Williams

David: An RC3 candidate is available that component teams should currently be smoke testing. There have been some small doc changes since the build that will require a respin but there is no need to smoke test again. Does anyone need a rebuild?
Chuck: We currently have lots of exceptions when running our JUnit tests that have to do with validation jobs closing before the tests are finished. Although this is not something users will hit as the problems are with the tests themselves we've cleaned up a bunch of the tests and would like to get them in. We'd also like to get another defect in that fixes a problem with classpaths.
Keith: 140813 is a major regression. We have a fix and are requesting a respin.
David: We will respin today. We'll start the build at 5pm EST.

Kosta: The process for RC4 requires PMC approval for fixing bugs. I don't think we're at that point yet. There are many more quality bugs that need to be fixed.
Lawrence: I propose that component leads discuss this with their teams and bring concerns to the PMC by sending mail to wtp-pmc or joining the PMC call on Tuesday. This item will be added to next week's PMC call.

3.2 WTP 1.5 Hot Bugs [1] - Lawrence Mandel


3.3 WTP 1.5 Hot Bug Requests [1] - Lawrence Mandel


3.4 P1 Bugs [1] - Lawrence Mandel

3.5 Blocking Bugs [1] - Lawrence Mandel

3.6 Bugs to be Triaged [1] - Lawrence Mandel

We're down to 72 bugs to triage (as of 1:05pm EST May 18, 2006). Great work! Keep it up. There are still bugs that were opened over a year ago that are assigned to inboxes.

3.7 Bugs Targeted to Past Milestones/Release Candidates [1] - Lawrence Mandel

There are currently 74 bugs targeted to 1.5 M4, 1.5 M5, 1.5 M6, 1.5 RC1 and 1.5 RC2. These milestones and release candidates have already been declared. Please retarget these bugs.

Kathy: WS currently uses M6 as a way of identifying that changes should be made in 1.5 but that we do not know the specific RC.
Lawrence: A target should only be assigned once the specific milestone in known.
Tim: It appears that we intended to fix a lot of defects in M6 but were unable to. I've also noticed a lot of bugs where the target is simply rolled up on every milestone release.
David: There is a new field in bugzilla called the "status whiteboard". This can be used for any information your teams need to add to bugs for your own queries.


4. Other Business - Open

No other business.

Lawrence Mandel

Software Developer
IBM Rational Software
Phone: 905 - 413 - 3814   Fax: 905 - 413 - 4920
wtp-dev mailing list

From: David M Williams [david_williams@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 10:04 AM
To: Tim Wagner
Cc: Chris Brealey; Chuck Bridgham; Craig Salter; Timothy Deboer; John Lanuti; kchong@xxxxxxxxxx; Konstantin Komissarchik; lauzond@xxxxxxxxxx; Lawrence E Dunnell; Lawrence Mandel; naci.dai@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Nitin Dahyabhai; Arthur Ryman; Ted Bashor
Subject: RE: 1.5 Release review - need your API summary this week

Tim, apologies for this very late response, but suspect Chris summed up for most components ... in other words, not much, if any, change in API,
due to the extended development time spent on 1.0.x stream and the desire to not "break" adopters at the last minute.

Component Leads, other than Chris, I have not seen any other notes on this topic ... did you send them just to Tim directly?
If so, please send us all a copy. In either case, even if "no change", please send a reply note, just saying that, so we can be explicit.

And here's a few items, that might help provide some interest to those reviewing the state of API in WTP.

1. The "navigator" framework that was not API in WTP was officially moved and has become API in the base eclipse ui component.
(The WTP "internal" navigator plugins have been removed).

2. The "tabbed property pages" that was not API in WTP was officially moved and has become API in the base eclipse ui component.
(The WTP "internal" tabbed properties pages have not been removed, because one adopter said they could not yet migrate in a timely way
(they need some functionality that was in the WTP version to also be migrated to the base version), so
we will keep these around as deprecated until the WTP 2.0 (2007) release).

3. In the JSP Component, we added a "JSP - as - CSS" content type. This is mostly for "tolerance" in WTP 1.5, so its not misinterpreted
as JSP-HTML or JSP-XML, but adopters might have to be aware that its no longer true that just because something is a "kind of" JSP,
that its automatically some form of HTML or XML (with was true in WTP 1.0).

4. The SSE family of editors have added some partition types as "public" API's, but we still need to add some more partition types
in 2.0 release, so the exact behavior of "how a document is partitioned" will change a little then, if anyone depends on exact details of
how documents are partitioned.

Hope this helps,

"Tim Wagner" <twagner@xxxxxxx>

05/16/2006 09:40 AM

"Timothy Deboer" <deboer@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Ted Bashor" <tbashor@xxxxxxx>, "Konstantin Komissarchik" <kosta@xxxxxxx>, "Arthur Ryman" <ryman@xxxxxxxxxx>, David M Williams/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, "Chris Brealey" <cbrealey@xxxxxxxxxx>, Chuck Bridgham/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, "Craig Salter" <csalter@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Lawrence Mandel" <lmandel@xxxxxxxxxx>, <naci.dai@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, John Lanuti/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, Nitin Dahyabhai/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, Lawrence E Dunnell/Redmond/IBM@IBMUS, <lauzond@xxxxxxxxxx>, <kchong@xxxxxxxxxx>
RE: 1.5 Release review - need your API summary this week

Duplicate copy (sent to the component leads directly). Please note that we need to submit the slide deck by this Friday. Thanks.

From: Tim Wagner
Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:36 AM
General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues.
1.5 Release review - need your API summary this week

WTP devs,
The PMC is preparing the 1.5 (aka Callisto) release review slides this week in preparation for the public review of our 1.5 shipworthiness.
I need your help to compile a list of:
  • New APIs introduced (or graduated out of provisional status) since our 1.0.2 release. If they are densely packed in some regions, you can summarize by class or package name.
  • APIs removed versus *any* previous version of WTP
    • If any conceptual (especially user- or adopter-visible) features have been removed, please note those in addition
    Please get these to me this week so that I can compile the final version of the review slides and submit them to the EMO by Friday. Thanks for your help,
From: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Arthur Ryman [ryman@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:15 AM
To: WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements, and Group discussions)
Cc: WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements, and Group discussions); wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [wtp-pmc] support Component in Bugzilla

Attachments: ATT110447.txt


Thx for the comments. You raise questions that I considered so it's worth discussing the rationale.

Yes, we should create cvs and bugzilla components to avoid this code being mixed up with the releng tools or tools that are actually part of WTP. The new component would be WTP-wide but clearly separated, e.g.

1) I think the topic of support is very important so I will assign an owner to it. We certainly have our fair share of bugs, and anything we can do to help the problem diagnosis process is worth serious consideration.The current contribution is a very small piece of code. We can ask the contributor to maintain it and have a WTP committer act as the component lead and mentor.

2) As we all know, there are significant obstacles to starting new projects so the most cost effective way to make this tool available for WTP support is to include it in our project. WTP has a set of .options files and we should make it easy for users to enable them.

Support is a topic of general interest and I would be in favour of moving any general purpose tools into a common project. However, there are significant costs to starting up new Eclipes projects. The way to get an Eclipse-wide project going is to show the existence of useful tools, and then collect them into a common project once a critical mass is available. The current contribution doesn't warrant the creation of a new Eclipse project. On the other hand, we do have a collection of WTP-specific .options and we should be making those easier to use. We should also look at how well WTP components are using logging and other problem determination aids, and expand the coverage as required.

The current contribution was recommended to me by a member of our internal support team. They found it useful and requested that WTP have something like it. I then asked the author if he was willing to contribute it and he agreed. So we have this simple tool available. As we discussed on the call today, interested parties should evaluate it and comment on the bug. [1]

However, whether or not we like this particular tool, we should start thinking more about the serviceability of WTP. As more products adopt WTP, the issue of support will become more important.


Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division

phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@xxxxxxx

David M Williams <david_williams@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

05/16/2006 12:09 AM

Please respond to
"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>

"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Re: [wtp-pmc] support Component in Bugzilla

Arthur, I assume you mean both bugzilla and cvs?
In either case, I'd prefer "not" .. for a couple of reasons,
1) is there a long term developer-owner responsible for it? Normally, that's required to propose a new component.
2) even if the answer to '1' is "yes", then I'd suggest they form their own (opensource) project (either within their company, or Eclipse, etc.,).
General purpose support tools, as this one is, is not really within our WTP scope (or  current resources) and sounds like it would be
useful to many others besides "WTP" specifically.

If you were just looking for an existing bugzilla component to assign this to, then seems like the high level WST one is fine.

If teams want to provide informal, unsupported debugging aides, they can do that in a "development" directory of the component that owns it.

It does sound like "support in general"  could be worked into a full fledge top level Eclipse project, if companies were interested in that,
but for the sake of purity, it does not seem like "support tools" in general, is part of our WTP mission.

Just my comments.


Arthur Ryman <ryman@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: wtp-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

05/15/2006 05:48 PM

Please respond to
"WTP PMC communications (including coordination, announcements,  and Group discussions)" <wtp-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>

[wtp-pmc] support Component in Bugzilla

PMC Members,

We've been discussing support issues internally at IBM and we thought it might be a good idea to provide aids for diagnosing WTP problems. This would help support teams. For example, WTP uses .options files to control logging. A member of our support team wrote on article [1] on helping users debug problems, and he contributed a tool to us [2]. I put this in releng, but I'd like to create a new component called "support" for this purpose. Comments?



Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division

phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@xxxxxxx
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