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RE: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in EAR. Opinions?
|
Monday works for me.
Monday sounds better, so we (or me at least) don't forget
what we have talked about during the weekend :-)
If there are no objections by others, can you send the
telecon number and access code?
Thanks, Kaloyan
Yes sorry - I can do it tomorrow or
Monday. Any preference?
Thanks - Chuck
Rational Java EE
Tooling Team Lead
IBM Software Lab - Research Triangle Park,
NC
cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx Ph: 919-254-1848 (T/L: 444)
| From:
| "Raev, Kaloyan"
<kaloyan.raev@xxxxxxx>
|
| To:
| <konstantin.komissarchik@xxxxxxxxxx>, "General discussion of
project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Chuck
Bridgham/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS
|
| Date:
| 07/10/2008 01:24 PM
|
| Subject:
| RE: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in EAR.
Opinions? |
I think we have lost the thread
here... Chuck, what is the soonest
day you can organize a telecon in the 8:00 AM to 9:00 AM PDT
timeslot? Greetings, Kaloyan
From: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Konstantin Komissarchik
Sent: Thursday, July 03,
2008 7:17 PM
To: General discussion of project-wide or architectural
issues.; Chuck Bridgham
Subject: RE: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in
EAR. Opinions?
Next week works ok for me and I suppose I can do 8 AM PDT if that's
absolutely the only time that makes sense for everyone else. - Konstantin
From: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Raev, Kaloyan
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 9:21
AM
To: Chuck Bridgham
Cc: General discussion of project-wide
or architectural issues.
Subject: RE: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in
EAR. Opinions?
Hi Chuck, Does this mean you can organize the telecon any day after
Thursday from 8:00 AM to 9:00 AM PDT?
Greetings, Kaloyan
From: Chuck Bridgham [mailto:cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:58 PM
To: Raev,
Kaloyan
Cc: General discussion of project-wide or architectural
issues.
Subject: RE: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in EAR.
Opinions?
Hi,
This Thursday doesn't work for me, but I can meet next week, any day
at the same time mentioned.
Thanks - Chuck
Rational Java EE Tooling Team Lead
IBM
Software Lab - Research Triangle Park, NC
cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx Ph:
919-254-1848 (T/L: 444)
| From:
| "Raev, Kaloyan"
<kaloyan.raev@xxxxxxx>
|
| To:
| Chuck Bridgham/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS,
"General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues."
<wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
| Date:
| 07/02/2008 08:13 AM
|
| Subject:
| RE: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in EAR.
Opinions? |
It really
seems we need a phone call...
Chuck, I remember we had phone calls when
discussing JEE5 more than year ago. Is it possible to use the same
teleconference for this topic?
As far as I remember the time slot was on Thursday, 8:00
AM - 9:00 AM PDT.
Greetings,
Kaloyan
From: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Konstantin Komissarchik
Sent: Tuesday,
July 01, 2008 7:13 PM
To: General discussion of project-wide or
architectural issues.
Subject: RE: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in
EAR. Opinions?
I still haven't heard a viable argument for why this restriction is
necessary. Allowing ear facet version changes does not completely address the
scenario that I presented. In a large and complicated app, the user may not be
ready to upgrade the ear spec level. That may be quite an undertaking. Regarding
the relationship between facet version and descriptor schema, anything other
than strict 1-to-1 relationship can lead to all sorts of problems in both WTP
and adopter code. It should be considered an error case. Sounds like we need a
phone call.
- Konstantin
From: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Raev, Kaloyan
Sent: Tuesday, July 01,
2008 5:41 AM
To: General discussion of project-wide or architectural
issues.
Subject: RE: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in EAR.
Opinions?
Tim, Konstantin, thank you for your comments.
I agree with Tim
that the facet version of the EAR should be considered as the max spec level of
the modules that this EAR can include. This sounds nice in terms of validation.
On
the other side I agree with the scenario given by Konstantin. At the moment the
users really cannot upgrade an existing EAR 1.4 to EAR 5 and add EE 5 modules to
it.
So, the solution in this situation I see to be that we allow
upgrading the facet version of EAR projects. Then we can do a strict
validation/filtering based on the EAR's facet version and at the same time have
the Konstantin's scenario possible. How hard would it be to introduce this? I
even see two possible option:
1) upgrading EAR facet version without upgrading the
DD (should be quite simple)
2) upgrading EAR facet version and upgrading the
DD
Greetings,
Kaloyan
From: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Konstantin Komissarchik
Sent: Friday,
June 27, 2008 7:14 PM
To: General discussion of project-wide or
architectural issues.
Subject: RE: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in
EAR. Opinions?
Here are my views on the subject...
Given that the spec is
ambiguous, the question that should be asked is "is there at least one runtime
that supports this scenario"? If the answer is yes for at least one runtime,
then in order to follow WTP charter and not preclude proper integration of that
runtime with WTP, we have to take a more allowing stance on this. There is
indeed at least one runtime that has no problem with this scenario. I just had
someone verify that WLS does in fact support it.
The situation is made
worse by the fact that we still have no support for spec level changes, so users
can get stuck. The following scenario is not that uncommon:
1. User has an existing
j2ee 1.4 app.
2. User needs to add a new module.
3. User wants to take advantage of java ee 5
features in new code.
We should not be getting in the way of this scenario. If
particular servers do not support this, then server adapters for those servers
can perform that validation and alert the user.
- Konstantin
From: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tim deBoer
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008
10:07 AM
To: General discussion of project-wide or architectural
issues.
Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in EAR.
Opinions?
Hi
Kaloyan,
Thank
you for raising this issue. I agree we are inconsistent in parts, and although
we don't necessarily need to resolve all of the issues immediately we should at
least have a common definition of what is 'correct' and may eventually be
supported by WTP.
Among the IBM committers we generally agree with #2, but have
made an interesting distinction: the schema used by a DD is only a bottom
boundary on the spec level of the EAR or module. As an example, a '1.4' EAR that
contains an EJB 3.0 module is really just an EE 5 EAR (or EE 6.0 or ...) with an
older DD. Likewise, EJB 3.0 annotations within an EJB module is an indication
that the EJB is at least EE 5/EJB 3.0, even if the DD still points to the EJB
2.0 schema.
If
DD schemas and spec API usage are just a bottom boundary, it means that there is
nothing within the contents of an EAR or module that can precisely determine its
level. So how do we tell if it is valid for a user to add an EJB 3.0 module to
what currently looks like a 1.4 EAR? Was it really an EE 5 EAR all along, do
they want to uplevel the EAR, or is the user simply making a
mistake?
The
solution we came to is using facets. Facet versions allow the user to tell us
which spec level they expect an EAR/module to be at, and gives us something to
tool for and validate against. The versions are set on project creation or on
import based on what we initially find in the modules. >From there, the facet
version of an EAR determines the maximum spec level of modules that can be added
or which servers it can be run on, and validation can show errors for invalid
modules or if the DD points to a schema above the level of the
facet.
If you
agree with the original distinction (that true EAR 1.4s can't hold EJB 3
modules, but the schema used by the DD is only a bottom boundary on the spec
level), then I think you'll eventually come to the same conclusion we have.
Please feel free to let me know what you think and others can chime in, or we
can discuss on one of the WTP calls.
Thanks,
Tim
deBoer
deboer@xxxxxxxxxx
| From:
| "Raev, Kaloyan"
<kaloyan.raev@xxxxxxx>
|
| To:
| "General discussion of project-wide or
architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
| Date:
| 06/26/2008 09:04 AM
|
| Subject:
| [wtp-dev] Mixing spec levels in EAR.
Opinions? |
Hello,
I want to bring
up again an issue that was discussed some time ago in
Bugzilla. It is about
mixing of spec levels of EAR and included modules.
There are two bugs
related:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=220929
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=229893
Everybody agree that EAR with spec level X could include modules
with
spec level X or lower. Example: EAR 5 can include EJB 2.1.
But there
is no consensus of opinion on EAR with spec level X to include
modules with
spec level higher than X. Example: EAR 1.4 to include EJB
3.0. There are two
contrary opinions:
1. EAR 1.4 can include EJB 3.0
2. EAR 1.4 cannot
include EJB 3.0.
The supporters of opinion 1 says that it is not
forbidden by the Java EE
spec.
The supporters of opinion 2 says that it
is (at least indirectly)
forbidden by the spec. This is because the contract
of the Java EE spec
says that a deployment module compliant with spec level X
must always be
able to deploy on an application server compliant with spec
level X. Now
let's look again at our example of EAR 1.4 including EJB 3.0.
EAR 1.4 is
a J2EE 1.4 deployment module and it is guaranteed by the spec that
it
will deploy on all J2EE 1.4 compliant servers. But if we try to
deploy
it on an J2EE 1.4 compliant app server, that is not at the same
time
Java EE 5 compliant, then our deployment will fail, because of
the
included EJB 3.0 module (which is Java EE 5 spec level).
At the
moment there is an inconsistency in several dialogs in WTP
regarding this
issue. For example the Java EE Module Dependencies
property page of an EAR
1.4 project filters Java EE 5 modules for
selection, while at the same time
the project creation wizard allows a
EJB 3.0 project to be added to an
existing EAR 1.4 project.
I suggest that we discuss this problem and
hope we will have an
agreement for WTP 3.0.1. I invite all application server
vendors
represented in this mailing list to express their support for
either
opinion 1 or opinion 2.
Greetings,
Kaloyan Raev
Eclipse
WTP Committer
<http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/people/person.php?name=raev>
Senior Developer
NW C JS TOOLS JEE (BG)
SAP Labs
Bulgaria
T +359/2/9157-416
mailto:kaloyan.raev@xxxxxxx
www.sap.com
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