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RE: [wtp-dev] Minutes of the WTP Status Telecon, 2006-04-27
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Kosta,
I'm glad you mentioned the recent problem
with .component since that is exactly what prompted me to put the requirement
down in writing for WTP 2.0 and to take any corrective action in WTP 1.5
so we can tolerate evolution.
Many of the people working on WTP have
been doing IDE development for a long time. Customers always tell us that
they need to support a mixed environment. Not everyone will move to WTP
2.0 at the same time. If we make a breaking change in WTP 2.0 then that
will inhibit its adoption.
Let's focus on the requirement, which
is that customers need to support a mixed environment of WTP 1.5, WTP 2.0
and possible other tools. The way teams share artifacts it through a source
code repository. That means we do not need to make workspaces sharable
in mixed environments, although I would personally find that useful (I
have a lot of old workspaces on my machine).
Ideally anyone should be able to create
a project and others should be able to check it out, work on it, and check
it back in.
Any requirement in a sense hampers us.
However, we need to focus on the customer requirements and be innovative
in how we solve them. We can at least position ourselves for evolution
by ensuring that the readers and writers of our control files can tolerate
unknown content, i.e. read it, preserve it, and write it back out. Both
Java property files and XML files support this scenario.
I think we also need to be concrete
and examine the evolution techniques on a case by case basis. There are
usually many ways to solve a problem.
Like it or not, we are a Platform and
need to be stable and evolve in a non-breaking way. That is the Charter
of this project. That is what we all signed up for.
Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division
blog: http://ryman.eclipsedevelopersjournal.com/
phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@xxxxxxx
"Konstantin Komissarchik"
<kosta@xxxxxxx>
Sent by: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
05/04/2006 09:41 AM
Please respond to
"General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues."
<wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
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To
| "General discussion of project-wide
or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
cc
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Subject
| RE: [wtp-dev] Minutes of the WTP Status
Telecon, 2006-04-27 |
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Not all changes are additive.
I don’t understand how we can make such a guarantee without seriously
hampering ourselves. We don’t know what functionality we will be trying
to put into 2.0 a year from now. How can we make 1.5 tolerant of such changes?
Since we can’t make it tolerant, then this rule seriously hampers what
we can do for 2.0. Here is a recent example from the 1.0 – 1.5 transition.
The .component file needed to be renamed to be consistent with other files
in the .settings directory. Obviously the 1.0 code line knows nothing of
the new name so it’s cannot be tolerant of it. To put this change in place,
it was necessary to make projects created with 1.5 not run on 1.0.
It is extremely rare for even
very mature projects to guarantee that content created on a future release
will work with the prior release and WTP is far from being a mature project.
Such guarantees are also not necessary as users do not naturally expect
this compatibility (vs the other way around).
- Konstantin
From: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Arthur Ryman
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:34 PM
To: General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues.
Cc: General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues.; wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [wtp-dev] Minutes of the WTP Status Telecon, 2006-04-27
Kosta,
We therefore need to ensure that either we don't introduce artifact changes
that break WTP 1.5, or that WTP 1.5 is tolerant of the changes, i.e. that
it tolerates new properties or XML content. If WTP 1.5 cannot be made tolerant
to evolution of artifacts, then WTP 2.0 needs to introduce new artifacts
the WTP 1.5 does ignore, e.g. to hold extended data.
Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division
blog: http://ryman.eclipsedevelopersjournal.com/
phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@xxxxxxx
"Konstantin Komissarchik"
<kosta@xxxxxxx>
Sent by: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
05/01/2006 05:55 PM
Please respond to
"General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues."
<wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
|
To
| "General discussion of
project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
cc
|
|
Subject
| RE: [wtp-dev] Minutes of the WTP Status
Telecon, 2006-04-27 |
|
> A WTP 1.5 should also be able to work on projects created by WTP 2.0
users
> and shared via a repository. Any new artifacts creates by WTP 2.0
should not
> break WTP 1.5. WTP 1.5 should either ignore or tolerate any new artifacts
> created by WTP 2.0.
I don’t think this is a good idea. By the time we are working on 2.0,
1.5 will be done. What it can and cannot ignore or tolerate will be fixed.
Having this requirement will seriously hamper our ability to deliver new
functionality not yet envisioned in the 2.0 release. I do agree that a
project created on 1.5 should not be auto-upgraded when it’s opened in
2.0 unless the user explicitly agrees to the upgrade, however I don’t
think we should require projects created in 2.0 (or those that have been
upgraded) to continue working on 1.5.
- Konstantin
From: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Arthur Ryman
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 1:48 PM
To: General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues.
Cc: General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues.; wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [wtp-dev] Minutes of the WTP Status Telecon, 2006-04-27
I posted some detail on compatibility requirements for WTP 2.0 on the Wiki
[1]. Please review and comment.
[1] http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Web_Tools_Requirements_2.0#Compatibility_with_Other_WTP_Releases
Arthur Ryman,
IBM Software Group, Rational Division
blog: http://ryman.eclipsedevelopersjournal.com/
phone: +1-905-413-3077, TL 969-3077
assistant: +1-905-413-2411, TL 969-2411
fax: +1-905-413-4920, TL 969-4920
mobile: +1-416-939-5063, text: 4169395063@xxxxxxx
Jeffrey Liu/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
Sent by: wtp-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
04/28/2006 10:59 AM
Please respond to
"General discussion of project-wide or architectural issues."
<wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> |
|
To
| "General discussion of
project-wide or architectural issues." <wtp-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
cc
|
|
Subject
| [wtp-dev] Minutes of the WTP Status
Telecon, 2006-04-27 |
|
See WTP Status Telecons [1] for more information.
[1] http://eclipse.org/webtools/development/status-telecons/index.html
Attendees
Amy Wu
Arthur Ryman
Chris Brealey
Chuck Bridgham
David Williams
David Klein
Jeffrey Liu
John Lanuti
Kate Price
Kathy Chan
Keith Chong
Kosta Komissarchik
Larry Dunnell
Lawrence Mandel
Nitin Dahyabhai
Rob Frost
Ted Bashor
Thomas Yip
Tim Deboer
Tim Wagner
1. Actions Items - Jeffrey Liu
Active Items
The following actions items showed some activity last week. [1]
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128308
| nor
| P3
| PC
| jeffliu@xxxxxxxxxx
| RESO
| FIXE
| [action] Document and Communicate
Hot Bug Process
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136715
| nor
| P3
| PC
| amywu@xxxxxxxxxx
| RESO
| FIXE
| [action] SSE: Review and identify
changes in WTP 1.5 that...
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136716
| nor
| P3
| PC
| csalter@xxxxxxxxxx
| NEW
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| [action] XML: Review and identify
changes in WTP 1.5 that...
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136717
| nor
| P3
| PC
| cbrealey@xxxxxxxxxx
| CLOS
| FIXE
| [action] WS: Review and identify
changes in WTP 1.5 that ...
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136719
| nor
| P3
| PC
| cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx
| NEW
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| [action] J2EE: Review and identify
changes in WTP 1.5 tha...
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136720
| nor
| P3
| PC
| dpchou@xxxxxxxxxx
| NEW
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| [action] RDB: Review and identify
changes in WTP 1.5 that... |
6 bugs found.
Open Items
The following action items
are currently open [2]. Action
items owners should update their status in Bugzilla prior to the status
telecon. Thx.
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136716
| nor
| P3
| PC
| csalter@xxxxxxxxxx
| NEW
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| [action] XML: Review and identify
changes in WTP 1.5 that...
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136719
| nor
| P3
| PC
| cbridgha@xxxxxxxxxx
| NEW
|
| [action] J2EE: Review and identify
changes in WTP 1.5 tha...
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136720
| nor
| P3
| PC
| dpchou@xxxxxxxxxx
| NEW
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| [action] RDB: Review and identify
changes in WTP 1.5 that... |
3 bugs found.
[1] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=casesubstring&short_desc=%5Baction%5D&product=Web+Tools&chfieldfrom=7d&chfieldto=Now
[2] https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=casesubstring&short_desc=%5Baction%5D&product=Web+Tools&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED
Jeff - Updates in bugzilla.
2. WTP 1.0.2 Status
- David Williams
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=138825
Update Manager site broken: underscores are in some feature version qualifiers
David - Was scheduled to announce
yesterday, but found a bug. So we held off the announcement. Want to discuss
it before declaring.
David - At the PMC call tuesday,
we agreed to have a 1.0.3 maintenance stream. My recommandation is to fix
this bug in 1.0.3. Do a build before andy other fixes gets in so that the
community can use that build.
Tim - What's the impact of this
bug?
David - It affects update manager.
Also, if users want to debug WTP, the they need to get the code from CVS
directly. Platfrom see this as a permanent limitation, so we just have
to live with it.
David - If no objections, I'll declare
1.0.2 in the afternoon? Congratulation everyone on this achievement.
David - Please hold off releasing
anything to the maintenance stream (1.0.3) until this bug is fixed and
the update manager site is ready.
David - Also, I suggest all 1.0.3
fixes require some level of PMC approval.
Arthur - Agree.
Tim - Each build should be treated
as a release candidate, so no regression.
Ted - What's the process for approval?
Send request to the wtp-dev list?
David - Yup, send request to wtp-dev
list and PMC members will vote in the bugzilla.
Jeff - Any dates for 1.0.3?
David - TBD.
Arthur - I think we need to see
how adopters are coming along with 1.0.2. If adopters ship 1.0.2 to customers,
it will generate bugs. We need to see what's the incoming rate and then
determine the dates.
3. WTP 1.5 Status
3.1 WTP 1.5 Build Status
- David Williams
David - RC2 is building fine. RC2
will be next Friday according to the Callisto schedule. Our prereqs will
probably release sometime Wed. We'll spend Thurs smoke test and declare
on Fri.
David - There are some failing JUnit
testcases that Chuck and I were talking about. Chuck cannot reproduce them
under Windows. Jeff, can we get test results for these test under another
Linux machine?
David - After RC2, fixes will need
component lead approval. Also, I believe it's after RC4 that all projects
will announce the bugs that will be fixed.
Ted - We need to get an architecture
review of the thread safety issue?
Chuck - I'm out next week, we can
do it the following Monday.
David - For next week, component
lead should have triage all the bugs so that we can get an accurate count
of the number of P1, P2 and etc.
3.2 WTP 1.5 Hot Bugs
[1] - Jeffrey Liu
[1] http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/plans/1.5/adopter-hotlist-report.html
Ted - Are we using the new hot bug process.
Jeff - Yes, my fault, forgot to include
the queries in the minutes.
4. Other Business -
Open
Arthur - I ran into problems when
opening old projects with 1.5. The projects don't show up.
Chuck - If you open it with the
old navigator, you won't see anything.
Arthur - Not just for Web projects,
same goes for any projects.
David - Sounds like a platform bug.
Chuck - I've tried it before and
it worked.
Arthur - What's the story for 1.0.2
and 1.5 co-existence?
Chuck - We support it.
Jeff - What about scenario like
this one: create project with 1.0.2, check into CVS. Check out project
using 1.5, modify something (ex. generate a Web service). Check project
into CVS. Open project again with 1.0.2, will this work?
David - Sounds like a good testcase
to try.
Arthur - We need to spell out the
scenarios that we support when we do the requirements for 2.0.
David - Goal is to be consistent
with the Platform.
David - Another testcase: set preference
in 1.0.2. Open the same workspace with 1.5 and make sure all the preferences
are still valid. Preference sometimes change names, in which case, migration
is needed.
Kathy - Are we not going to declare
an I build this week? Meaning we do not need to hold back on releasing?
David - Plan is to not declare one.
But keep in mind that we are in shut down mode, so every build should have
some level of stability.
Kathy - We have quite a few fixes
this week, would be nice to have an I build declared.
David - Anyone else want one this
week?
Chuck - I would vote for one.
David - OK.
Tim - We have some problems generating
the usage report using the API scanner.
Jeff - I'll take a look and reply
to your note.
Thanks,
Jeffrey Liu
IBM Rational Software
IBM Toronto Lab.
8200 Warden Ave. Markham, Ontario, L6G 1C7
Internal mail: D3/UMZ/8200/MKM (D3-268)
T/L: 969 3531
Tel: (905) 413 3531
Fax: (905) 413 4920
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and/or
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