RE: [stellation-res] Windows distribution file

["Mark C. Chu-Carroll" <mcc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 03:03, Jonathan Gossage wrote:
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: stellation-res-admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >[mailto:stellation-res-admin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Mark C.
> > >Chu-Carroll
> > >Sent: December 17, 2002 9:42 PM
> > >To: Stellation-res
> > >Subject: Re: [stellation-res] Windows distribution file
> > >
> > >
> > >On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 09:42, Dave Shields wrote:
> > >> On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 07:19:39PM -0500, Jonathan Gossage wrote:
> > >> > I have been thinking about the best format for the Windows
> > >distribution file
> > >> > for Stellation. Basically there are three options:
> > >> >
> > >> > 1. Produce a Windows installer file.
> > >> >
> > >> > 2. Produce a .zip file.
> > >> >
> > >> > 3. Produce a self-extracting zip file.
> > >> >
> > >> > The pro's for option 1 are that this is a well understood
> > >format that is
> > >> > tightly integrated with the Windows environment.
> > >> >
> > >> > The major disadvantage is that either you need an expensive
> > >commercial
> > >> > installer generation program or you are faced with a LOT of
> > >work to generate
> > >> > a .msi file.
> > >> >
> > >> > The main pro for option 2 is simplicity. Ant will readily
> > >generate a .zip
> > >> > file. This is also the current distribution mechanism for Eclipse.
> > >> >
> > >> > The main disadvantage is that you require Winzip installed
> > >on the machine to
> > >> > get access to the contents of the .zip file. Winzip is frequently not
> > >> > installed on servers which is where the server component of
> > >Stellation will
> > >> > normally be installed. It also means that installation is a two step
> > >> > procedure instead of a single step procedure.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Jonathan,
> > >>
> > >> According to the Stellation Installation document:
> > >>
> > >>   Before you can use the system, you must install it.
> > >>   We use Ant to install it.
> > >>
> > >> Indeed, one of the reasons for using Ant is that it provides support
> > >> for unpacking zip files, so you don't need Winzip if you have Ant.
> > >
> > >Yes, but... The main reason we've used ant thus far is because we've
> > >been too busy to look at any alternatives. If Jonathan and Ringo want
> > >to take a stab at this, to make things easier for users, then I'm
> > >all for it, and it makes sense for us to be involved in the discussion.
> > >
> > >None of us on the IBM team have time to help with this in anything
> > >but an advisory mode. But if you guys want to do it, we'd be thrilled
> > >to have a decent install process on windows.
> > >
> > >Eventually, we'll probably want to either do a similar install
> > >under Linux, or put together an RPM. But that can wait until either
> > >we have time, or we have volunteers...
> > >
> > >	-Mark
> > >
> The Ant approach works well so long as the users are developers involved in
> alpha testing or working as contributors. However, for product distribution
> we need a solution that does not require the user to pre-install any tools
> or other software before installing Stellation. This implies either building
> the install/uninstall capabilities directly into Stellation or using a
> Windows installer based tools (either open source or commercial) for Windows
> and something like a RPM based approach for Linux. For my own education,
> does the RPM approach work on Solaris and other non-Linux based platforms?

All of the various Unixes now support *something* along the lines of
RPMs. There are variations in exactly what a package looks like, but the
basic mechanics are pretty similar. Once we have an RPM package set up,
then getting packages for other unix systems that don't use RPM will
be fairly easy. (I don't know what Solaris supports now. All of the
redhat and debian derived Linux distros support RPM; so do the BSDs;
and so do the latest versions of AIX.)

> If we need a "quick-fix" solution for the immediate future then Ant is the
> root to go, but I don't think it can be our final distribution/installation
> solution. So do you feel that we should go for Ant now and look at a final
> solution later or should we bite the bullet and invest the work now to get a
> final installation solution?

I agree that ant isn't ideal for the long term, especially for
installing a stellation client. (The server is less of a concern to
me, because there's enough of an administrative load involved in setting
up and maintaining a server that they'll probably need something like
a set of ant or sed scripts for customization anyway.)

As for when to look at an alternate installation solution: that's
something that we need to leave up to you, and some of the other 
non-IBM contributors. I'd love to see a better install solution than
what we have. But the three of us at IBM are already overworked with the
stuff we're working on. There's just no way that we can actively work on
the install problem right now beyond maintaining the ant apparatus. If
you want to work on it, we'll definitely do our best to be supportive,
and give you the help you need. But you (or some other contributor)
will need to take the lead, and do the bulk of the work.


	-Mark

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