| Re: [stellation-res] Database abstraction |
On Tue, Aug 13, 2002 at 07:55:15PM +0000, Mark C. Chu-Carroll wrote: > > I dare to say that is not true: > > 1. Installing a database is trivial by using a package provided by > > the distro. > > 2. If you are not using a distro, then you are a power user and do not > > need any handholding in 'configure && make && make install' > > 3. If you cannot configure and install from source (on UNIX), or you > > cannot create a database, then you are not a "developer". > > > > Please note that I'm not talking about administering or fine-tuning a > > database. Just a "rpm -i/apt-get" and a "createdb". > > I don't completely agree with Dave, but I don't completely agree > with you either. > > Installing one of the simpler database packages is not a horrribly complicated > chore. > > On the other hand, it's not trivial either. It's not a single step "rpm -i". > It's a multi-step process. It doesn't have to be. Installing postgres/firebird/mysql on debian is a single step process. Configuring it the way we wanted (add user, create database...) can be done by a script that will work for the xy% of the users that cannot/will not follow a multi-step process. > And every time you add a multi-step > prerequisite, you are driving away potential developers and users. > > The latter is far more of a concern to me than the former. To be honest, > if a potential develop isn't willing to figure out how to install and > use a database well enough to run Stellation, I don't think i really > want to see their code in the system. > > On the other hand, when the system stabilizes enough for people > to really use it, I think that the RDB installation will be much more > of a barrier. To try out out CVS, all you do is install the CVS rpm. To > try out PRCS, all you do is install a PRCS RPM. To install Stellation, > you need to first get a database running and configured. Or install the stellation RPM or DEB. The fact that we don't have a package now doesn't mean we will not... > If we're trying to recruit developers of other systems to use Stellation, > we need to do a lot of streamlining of the installation and configuration > process. > > One of the things that I really want to do in the coming months is > some work on automating the installation process, including doing > the installation and configuration of the underlying database. Sure. > Anyway... As far as databases go, Postgres is just about the easiest > to install RDB out there. It installs in a snap, and mostly runs right > out of the box. (For JDBC, you do need to go in a tweak a config > file, but still, it's overall quite easy.) But the performance is, as Dave > said, less than ideal, and the JDBC implementation stinks. The performance > might be addressable. But the JDBC implementation has been awful > for at least two years. And the only "progress" I've seen that time is > a regression, where they removed the LOB support. > > > I haven't tried DB/2 lately, but from my memory, aside of creating a > > couple of users and groups, the installation was pretty much flipping > > through a wizard clicking "Next>". > > On this point, you are so far from the truth that it's not even funny. > I *really* want to like DB2. And as an IBM employee, a significant > part of my salary is paid by the money that DB2 generates. So I > have very strong reasons to be biased in its favor. > > The first time that I tried to install DB2, it took me three full days > of work. There was a curses based configuration UI, which collected > up a ridiculous number of configuration options, did no validation > whatsoever to make sure that the options were entered correctly, > wrote the options into a file in /tmp, and then ran a bunch of > "rpm -i"'s, which contained scripts that read the configuration file. If > any of the options were wrong, the rpm's would fail, and the install > script would generate no useful diagnostics whatsoever. It was, by > far, the single worst installation process I've ever seen. OK, maybe it was Oracle. Or maybe it was DB/2 for Windows. It is been a couple of years since I've tried it and I remember being frustrated with the Control Center more than with the install ;(. florin -- "If it's not broken, let's fix it till it is." 41A9 2BDE 8E11 F1C5 87A6 03EE 34B3 E075 3B90 DFE4
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