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Re: [starter-dev] Some updates on the progress made lately

Thanks to everyone for the work that has been done on this project.  I believe this project is one of the key resources for enabling developers to easily get started with the Jakarta EE Platform.  I am very happy to see that the starter is up and running and individuals can now easily obtain "starter".

Now that there are some minimal archetypes available for use, it feels like the starter is off the ground and in a very good position to move forward.  I would not be opposed to the creation of a more dynamic archetype which would provide the capability to more easily change for different releases, etc.  Velocity should make it easy to substitute versions to make a more dynamic solution.  However, the static archetypes are a great starting point.

I do think that it would be nice if developers could simply download a ZIP file containing the project, rather than requiring the use of maven to create a project.  This would take the project a step closer to what other technologies, such as Spring Boot and MicroProfile already offer.  Although it would take more work to get there, I think that some of the committers on the project have already invested time and effort to get this type of solution moving.  

I am not certain that we need to include runtimes along with the downloaded projects, although it may be a nice option to offer in the future.  I agree with Edwin that it seems like it may require a lot of maintenance to keep up with the different implementations and versions of runtimes.  Perhaps it makes sense to include references in the "Learn More!" section for example projects that contain runtimes...perhaps an implementation of the Cargo Tracker and other projects.

Thanks again to everyone for their work and feedback on this important initiative.

On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 8:42 AM Edwin Derks <ederks85@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi all,

Good to see that we now have a nice, stable base for the starter to work from. This was a big step so compliments to everyone that contributed to this. I think in addition to what already has been said, that we need to keep the focus on what we want with the starter as a "product".
- do we want it only as an easy one-stop-shop Maven project generator that can you help get started quickly with the available archetypes? This prevents people from scouring the internet for the correct syntax for pom.xml, beans.xml, and the likes
- do we want it to include a (default) runtime, or provide that as an option to what can be generated by the starter? But that might require some maintenance; how are we going to handle the implementations and versions?
- do we want it to be or contain a full fledge demo that you can use or strip down to what you need? Can the existing cargo tracker be used or at least here?

Naturally, I'm all for exploring options with input from everyone interested.

Kind regards,


On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 at 15:03, reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks for sending this update. I am certainly very happy to see progress on the projects and also happy to see we can have a discussion together to agree on key decisions. I have already given the existing committers a heads up this is a discussion we need to have soon and I have also pulled in several key folks from the community (including IBM, Red Hat, Oracle, etc) to help us all move forward together. Bazlur, myself and Jeyvison remain fully committed to this project. We do need to reconcile direction between the recent commits and the work the three of us have done, have been doing and wish to continue to do.

I think there are many points of differences of opinion, but I think we need to start by determining collective agreement on the following:
  • To what extent do we try to follow the various starters out there that we know are effective such as the Spring Boot, MicroProfile, etc starter vs taking a significantly different direction.
  • Does the UI expose Maven Archetypes as an underlying technology or does it remain focused on higher level use cases such as minimal vs crud, Jakarta EE version, profile, Java SE version, etc?
  • Do the code examples include the runtime and are immediately runnable without any additional setup or does the user need to figure our how to get the runtime separately and the code examples do not in any way include the runtime?
  • Does the UI ask the user to execute more steps to generate the code or does it simply allow the user to download the generated code example?
  • Do we make full use of the dynamic capabilities of Maven Archetypes such as Velocity Templates and Groovy Scripts or is it a large (probably several dozen) collection of static archetypes for essentially every single code example line that can vary?
I will post my own views and rationale to these questions in a subsequent email. I would appreciate all other folks here did the same as well and help us achieve overall agreement. I think I understand Ivo and Ivar’s position on these questions but I think it’s still good to add explicit clarity and rationale for everyone so we can move forward together based on a common mutual understanding.

From: starter-dev <starter-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Ivar Grimstad <ivar.grimstad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 2:22 AM
To: starter developer discussions <starter-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [starter-dev] Some updates on the progress made lately
Greetings Committers and Contributors,

I am super excited to see the starter project moving forward after a little standstill. There has been some great progress made lately! New contributors and committers are on board. We now have a simple UI available at that generates a simple project for Jakarta EE 8, Jakarta EE 9.1, and Jakarta EE 10. The feedback I have received from the community when demoing it has been 100% positive.

The UI uses bare-minimum archetypes to generate the code. The next steps would be to add support for runtimes and possibly explore creating a CLI as an alternative to the Web UI.

In addition to the UI, there are also several archetypes that generate more extensive examples being worked on. Since everything is based on archetypes, adding these and potentially other archetypes created by the community should be fairly straightforward.

The archetypes for EE 8, 9.1, and 10 could be mashed together as one with the conditional logic inside the archetype. I am not sure if this is the right thing to do, though. 
Keep in mind that as we go forward with EE 11, 12, 13, ... the older versions won't need much attention. Sometimes, a little duplication is favorable over adding another branch in the logic (even if it is just another if-statement...).

The option of creating a server-based solution to generate the starter projects is still an option if someone wants to pursue this. It is always good to have options.
Personally, I think the approach to base the starter on archetypes is a better and more flexible way to go. The only server needed is Maven Central, and that is already there and not our problem to maintain. And it provides the option for developers to consume the archetypes directly, via our UI, potentially a CLI, or directly in IDEs.


Ivar Grimstad

Jakarta EE Developer Advocate | Eclipse Foundation Eclipse Foundation - Community. Code. Collaboration. 

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