Skip to main content

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
Re: [science-iwg] Rebooting the Science Working Group

Hi You Guys,

Great to read this and to be in contact again. I no longer deliver apps on RCP platform and also do not package as OSGi plugins. Although we wanted to branch out to other things, the core holding us together was that we all had RCP or OSGi-based applications which had the chance of standardizing on things like plotting and data description i.e. reduce our joint overheads and produce higher quality things and share contractors. 

While some projects (maybe just one) I tried, worked to the extent that some of the group use it and one or two outside the group, that dream of interoperability was not fulfilled with the activities we did. Some contractors were able to work between us and I think that was a success but the monthly meetings devolved into bureaucracy I did not understand or enjoy (not sure why). I ended up working in microservices for an oil company for two years which also reduced the scope of open source for me.

Anyway I returned to science last year, this time biology and it is a requirement of some of our research grants to release software open source but it won't be OSGi, it is standard artifacts (plain maven and gradle produced). This is because it is arguably easier to build microservices/cloud functions with a fat jar and a few maven central dependencies than going through all the complexities we had with RCP. In short, for my work, OSGi was killed by a Cloud (sadly, but also phew my life is simpler...).

So from my perspective I think that the science WG should be considerably more open exactly as you have suggested. It should be so open that those of us working for research projects can dip in and out depending on the project on which we are funded. The Foundation has the legal capacity to help research groups who want to release a properly IP checked artifacts rather than simply a github or bitbucket repository. If a way can be found to offer that service without yearly membership institution costs (perhaps via sponsorship or one-off costs or free for projects under a certain size codebase or crowd funding a project proposal?) then researchers could start to release reusable components which others can pick up. Of course many already do for pure research but if IP was really bolted down, anyone could use our works. 

Perhaps more than that, it has to be fun. It was the science working group after all which got me a ticket to walk around Oak Ridge, the maritime research facility in Trondheim and the Airbus factory, fucking-A. We should have technical presentations regularly and get together to explain the work we have been finding interesting. That was an important component in the early days of the group because it happened naturally as we were still learning what each other did and how similar the problems we were all tackling in different environments. It might not mean traditional meetings with an agenda but perhaps unconference style get-togethers with a basic theme? E.g. person X is showing this then we will talk about how it could be used. 

I think the science WG still has some huge advantages in releasing software open source which are not addressed in the wider world of scientific software.

Cheerio,

Matt


On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 at 05:53, Philip Wenig <philip.wenig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Good Morning,

I also vote for option #2.
If possible, I'm also available for joining the SC on election.


Best,
Philip

Am 11.02.21 um 04:12 schrieb Jay Jay Billings:
Everyone,

Good evening! I wanted to follow up on Sharon's and Torkild's emails that discussed revisions to our charter and the idea of rebooting the Science Working Group (SWG). What follows below is a loose summary of the meeting we had with the Eclipse Foundation (EF) staff and some thoughts for your consideration.

On January 21st Sharon Corbett emailed the SWG list about proposed amendments to our charter in light of the EF move to European governance. I started a discussion thread on the SWG Steering Committee (SC) Mailing List, which is a separate list only for the SC, to ask how this should be handled (reasons below) and Sharon was kind enough to organize a meeting. That meeting was earlier today and it was attended by Sharon Corbett, Paul Buck, Torkild Resheim, Mike Milinkovich, and me. As some of you may recall, I resigned as Chair of the SC when I moved to Stellar Science in September since it is not a member company and, thus, I participated in the meeting as a representative of the group and not a member of the SC.

The meeting opened with an introduction from Paul describing our goal of figuring out what to do with the Working Group and, in particular, how to move forward with amendments to the charter in light of the present state of the group. I provided a summary of the concerns that I highlighted in my original email, which are the following:
1. Participation in the Science Working Group would appear to be at an all-time low. Although we do check in every so often by email discussions on the list, we do not have a large amount of activity compared to our hey-day when Mike once described us as the most active WG in the EF.
2. We were not able to successfully hold an election for the SC in March 2020. For a year or so Torkild and I were the only members participating in the SC with both of us having been re-elected as Secretary and Chair, respectively, in 2019. Other members moved on. During the 2019-2020 term and into the Unelected Term of 2020-2021, we were unable to find new Steering Committee members and unable to hold an election because we were the only two remaining members.
3. I resigned as Chair when I moved to Stellar Science in September 2020, leaving Torkild as the last person standing on the SC. That seems quite problematic for Torkild and the group, and the request to update the charter for the move to the EU revealed as much.

Note that these observations do not apply to the Science Top Level project. While there have been no new projects in a while, there are active commits and releases on multiple projects. Greg Watson holds monthly PMC meetings for those projects who can attend and the PMC continues to govern the projects. The Science PMC is governed completely separately from the Science IWG, although the membership is a lot of the same characters.

In light of the three points above and in consideration of the move to EU governance which requires updates to our charter, we are left with three options:
1) Immediately hold elections to repopulate the Steering Committee and ratify the changes to the charter.
2) Allow Torkild to ratify the changes to the charter as proposed and "reboot" the group with new membership policies to expand membership both for the SWG and the SC and thereby revitalize the community.
3) Decline to ratify the changes and recommend that the group be disbanded. That is, hang up our spurs and let the group ride out into the sunset.

The decision by those present was that #2 was by far the most desirable option. No one wants #3 and if we went that route would we ever be able to get back together again? #1 is a possibility but as Torkild and I already spent more than a year trying to rebuild the SC it is unlikely to be successful.

So, we make it to the final question: What does it mean to "reboot" the group? Ultimately this question comes down to membership and who can join the working group and how they can do it. The primary reason that Torkild and I were unable to recruit new SC members is that our charter is rather restrictive on who can be a member of the SC. This also applies to the membership of the group as a whole. You can read the details in the charter here: https://www.eclipse.org/org/workinggroups/science_charter.php. Mike said it best at the meeting today: "The working group does not need 4 tiers of membership."

We plan to rewrite the charter to 1) satisfy the needs of the new European business entity and 2) rework the membership rules to a) clarify who can join the working group and how they can do it, and b) establish a new Steering Committee that is self-replicating and meritocratic in its membership, including both member companies and longstanding committers. This plan will ensure the continued longevity of the group and give us the opportunity to revitalize the community by broadening and empowering our membership.

I welcome your candid feedback and constructive criticism. And with that, on behalf of our membership, I will kindly ask Torkild in his role as our entire steering committee: Mr. Secretary, will you create a Google Doc for the group to update our charter?

Jay
--
Jay Jay Billings
Twitter Handle: @jayjaybillings

_______________________________________________
science-iwg mailing list
science-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/science-iwg

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OpenChrom - the open source alternative for chromatography / mass spectrometry
Dr. Philip Wenig » Founder » philip.wenig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx » http://www.openchrom.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_______________________________________________
science-iwg mailing list
science-iwg@xxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this list, visit https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/science-iwg

Back to the top