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Re: [paho-dev] Paho plans
If another project is created for a Java MQTT server then I'd like to proposed the proejct name be another insert that bites, for instances Blackfly would be perfect :-)

On a more serious note, having one project/name might make things easier for community building. Just a thought, I leave it up to you guys to decide.


On 07/10/2013 3:33 PM, Ian Craggs wrote:
I missed this discussion, being on vacation last week in Montreal.

As stated in the Mosquitto proposal, the aim for an MQTT server in C was to target the smallest environments, even where a JVM was too big, or consumed too much of the available resources.

A Java implementation of something like Mosquitto/RSMB be would complementary as it could serve the purposes of:

1) really nice integration into the Eclipse IDE, and
2) integration into the OSGi stack

although it wouldn't have to be quite as "KISS" as Mosquitto, having a well defined scope (say MQTT and MQTT-SN protocols only) would still be desirable, otherwise, as Paul says, we could end up with just another message broker.  And feature bloat.

As currently phrased, the Mosquitto proposal describes a C/C++ MQTT server implementation.  I like that focussed scope - there are well-defined boundaries.  As it stands, a Java MQTT server would be another project.   

If the Mosquitto project were deemed to be a container for any MQTT server, then the project proposal would have to be amended.    Paho contains MQTT clients in all languages, but a server is a larger undertaking, so having a separate project for MQTT server implementations in different languages does not feel like overkill to me.

Ian

On 07/10/13 11:59, Paul Fremantle wrote:
ActiveMQ and its successor Apollo are both general purpose message brokers. I think they are excellent choices in many circumstances. I would also like to see MQTT support added to other general purpose brokers, for example Apache QPid. 

However, I would suggest that RSMB and Mosquitto implement a different pattern that aligns very well with MQTT which is the idea of a very small footprint broker that specializes in MQTT. I think if we build any new work in Java we should aim for this model. Otherwise it will just be YAMB (Yet Another Message Broker). 

Paul


On 7 October 2013 10:05, Julien Vermillard <jvermillar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Active MQ embedded could be a solution no? ActiveMQ is supporting MQTT
and play wells in OSGi environements.
Julien

On Mon, Oct 07, 2013 at 01:35:26AM -0700, Dave Locke wrote:
> Hi Scott,
> as one of the project leads I would love to see a small footprint Java MQTT server hosted in Paho or a project under the M2M umbrella.   With Mosquito and RSMB being contributed, a small footprint MQTT server that runs well in an OSGi container is one of the main missing pieces of a solid Eclipse MQTT based ecosystem.
>
> All the best
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> From:        Scott Lewis <slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To:        General development discussions for paho project <paho-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date:        05/10/2013 05:57
> Subject:        Re: [paho-dev] Paho plans
> Sent by:        paho-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> I happen to disagree with the wisdom of the Board's definition, but that doesn't have to do with anything...as I'm not questioning based upon impl language...I don't really care what language it's written in.
>
> What I do care about is being able to use a framework provided by another EF project...seems to me that everyone should want other EF projects as consumers...but I guess community means different things to different people/companies.
>
> As I've already made clear, I would be one such contributor for a java based Mqtt broker...but sadly, without the commitment of the project leads that seems unlikely to happen for a new project in incubation
>
> I never said anything about a requirement. I simply thought that a new project might want some consumers/community members/supporters.
>
> In the mean time ECF has little choice other than to use the work of other, non-EF projects in this area. Not what we would prefer to do.
>
> Scott
>
>
> Mike Milinkovich <mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Scott,
>
> The "powers that be" would be referring to the Eclipse Board.
>
> Your viewpoint on what defines an Eclipse project is out of date. The Eclipse Board decided quite some time ago that we are willing to accept projects based on languages and platforms other than Java and OSGi. (Sorry, I'm on my phone or I'd provide a link. I'll do that in the morning. )
>
> If sufficient contributors show up willing to create a Java MQTT broker as part of Mosquitto, that would be great. But there is no requirement for the existing project to port to Java.
>
> Mike Milinkovich
> mike.milinkovich@xxxxxxxxxxx
> +1.613.220.3223
> From: Scott Lewis
> Sent: Friday, October 4, 2013 6:50 PM
> To: paho-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Reply To: General development discussions for paho project
> Subject: Re: [paho-dev] Paho plans
>
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> On 10/4/2013 3:20 PM, Roger Light wrote:
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> >> I suppose that this is more a question for Mosquitto than for Paho...but
> >> since Mosquitto is a project proposal I suppose I should ask it here: If
> >> Mosquitto doesn't integrate with OSGi runtimes...or Eclipse...in any
> >> way...would it make sense to host the project at Eclipse?
> > A good question to raise. The Eclipse Foundation "About" page makes no
> > mention of Java or OSGi :) It does talk in terms of building
> > frameworks for building and maintaining software, but my impression is
> > that with the M2M side of thing the powers that be have a desire for a
> > broader approach on the technology front.
>
> I'm not sure who you are referring to with the 'powers that be'. Could
> you explain?
>
> I have no objection to using C as an implementation
> language...particularly as I imagine it could provide size and/or
> performance benefits. But it would be nice if it also ran on the EF
> runtime platform (OSGi framework) so that other EF projects could
> actually use it as a framework. Currently that's not possible...i.e.
> the vast majority of EF projects can't even use the framework. This
> severely limits the usefulness to other EF projects...which hopefully
> are at least a desired consumer of this work.
>
> I'm not asking that the C implementation be at all
> abandoned...rather...why not do what SWT did...and provide a java API
> that uses the C implementation? Like I said, I would be willing to
> contribute to such an effort...so that other EF projects could actually
> consume/use this framework (ECF in my case, but I suspect that other
> projects could be interested also).
>
> Note I'm not asking this for the IDE/tooling per se...rather ECF is a
> runtime project, and is primarily focused on supporting OSGi runtimes
> and standards (e.g. OSGi remote services). So this request isn't about
> the IDE...or even tooling more generally. A lot of work in the RT
> project at EF is focused on OSGi server development, and in the abstract
> M2M would be an ideal combination IMHO...lightweight brokers for
> modular, lightweight OSGi servers.
>
> All I'm asking is that you look to other EF projects as a prospective
> community, and make it possible for them/us to consume this work. Not
> that the existing codebase be abandoned or rewritten.
>
> I'm of the opinion that supporting other EF projects should be some sort
> of metric for all EF projects...so that we don't end up a loose
> collection of unrelated projects...with no/little relationship other
> than that we are hosted at eclipse.org...but that's just my opinion.
>
> Scott
>
>
> > It's without a doubt true
> > that a big part of how EF works is down to the IDE, and that feels a
> > bit odd when the C and Python that I'm interested do have nothing to
> > do with the IDE, but I think that's just one of those things. If it
> > genuinely was the opinion that it wouldn't make sense to host the
> > project at Eclipse, then fair enough, no hard feelings, but I don't
> > think that is the case. It just fits less under the IDE umbrella than
> > the M2M umbrella, which is by its nature a bit of a different beast.
> >
> > Ponte and Paho (Java client notwithstanding; there are C, Lua, Python
> > and _javascript_ as well) are other projects that are non-OSGi/Java
> > related.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Roger
> > _______________________________________________
> > paho-dev mailing list
> > paho-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/paho-dev
>
>
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--
Paul Fremantle
Part-time PhD student - School of Computing
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