Skip to main content

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
[modeling-pmc] Re: SV: MOFScript move to M2T (was: M2T MTL)


I think there's an Xpand in GMF too, org.eclipse.gmf.xpand.  As I said at
the ESE, not only do we have diversity, we have duplication.  We'd like to
remove EMF's version of JET, but with resource constraints, that might not
be possible this release either.  :-(   I assume removing the GMF version
of Xpand will be easier.

I think what's important long term is that we have a clean set of
alternatives in the M2T project, so personally I'd rather see only a
compliant version

Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
mailto: merks@xxxxxxxxxx
905-413-3265  (t/l 313)

             Richard Gronback                                          
   >                                              To
                                       Paul Elder/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA,    
             11/08/2007 03:25          Oldevik Jon                     
             PM                        <Jon.Oldevik@xxxxxxxxx>, PMC    
                                       members mailing list            
                                       Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, "Olsen
                                       Gøran K."                     
                                       <jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx>, Bezivin Jean
                                       Re: SV: MOFScript move to M2T (was:
                                       M2T MTL)                        

Copying the PMC mailing list to keep this discussion open and transparent.

If there is doubt that what?s in CVS has been properly cleared by the IP
process, it needs to be removed until it has been.

Now that I more carefully read the MOFScript description, I see what?s
implemented was a proposal for the MOF to Text Transformation Language RFP.
To me ?adding an implementation of the standard means? means we?ll have 1.
JET in EMF  2. JET2  3. Xpand  4. MOFScript  and 5. Some variant of
MOFScript that is MOF2Text compliant.  I?ve got no problem with variety,
but this seems like a lot of M2T flavors to me.

FYI, SVN will work with PDE build for fetching, but you?ll need help:  We use it for commercial
product builds, but note that SVN is not supported by the releng tools, nor
will it tag during the build, afaik (unless it?s a new feature, or I missed

Best Regards,

On 11/8/07 11:01 AM, "Paul Elder" <pelder@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


      Here's a summary of our call. The plan:

      1) Jon to prepare and initial draft of Move Review "docuWare", and
      send it to Paul for comment.
      2) Present it to the PMC  for comment. (Hopefully, we can do by next
      3) Put this to a vote of M2T committers.
      4) Talk to the foundation about IP issues.
      5) Schedule a Move Review (earliest possible is Dec 5).

      From what I can tell from the foundation, the Move Review docuWare
      must include:
      * What is MOFScript and future plans
      * Reasons for the move
      * Names of committers who are moving
      * Move plan:
        * Any CQs (IP reviews) required
        * source code repository
        * bugzilla
        * newsgropus
        * builds
        * web pages/downloads

      MOFScript future directions
      * MOFScript is NOT currently an implementation of the OMG MOF Model
      to text standard
      * Sintef is planning on adding an implementation of the OMG standard
      - current estimates are that this would occur in the next 6 months or
      so (but likely not in time for Ganymede).

      Finally, some IP and process issues were identified.

      IP Issues
      * There may not have been a contribution questionaire for the
      MOFScript code currently in CVS.
      * Sintef is using a SVN repository for primary work
      and then does periodic commits to Eclipse CVS. Their use of bugzilla
      is currently inconsistent - they frequently make changes in reponse
      to GMT newsgroup posts.
      **** All this suggests that a new contribution questionaire may be in
      order ****

      * Moving forward, MOFScript should:
         * Use Bugzilla to track all changes/contributions
         * Use an Eclipse repository as the primary code repository.
         * Use the modeling build infrastructure. (It is unclear whether
      Nick's modeling build will work with SVN. If not, a move to CVS may
      be required.)


      Paul Elder
      IBM Rational Software
      Tel: +1-613-599-3916
      E-mail: pelder@xxxxxxxxxx

      Oldevik Jon <Jon.Oldevik@xxxxxxxxx> 2007-11-07 09:30 AM


      Paul Elder/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA


      Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, "Olsen Gøran K."
      <Goran.K.Olsen@xxxxxxxxx>, jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx, Bezivin Jean
      <Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Richard Gronback


      SV: MOFScript move to M2T (was: M2T MTL)

      Thursday @ 1600 CET is good. We'll be one the phone at that time



      Fra: Paul Elder [mailto:pelder@xxxxxxxxxx]
      Sendt: on 07.11.2007 15:26
      Til: Oldevik Jon
      Kopi: Ed Merks; Olsen Gøran K.; jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx; Bezivin Jean;
      Richard Gronback
      Emne: Re: MOFScript move to M2T (was: M2T MTL)


      How about Thursday @ 1600 CET, 1000 EDT:

      I have a conference call number that purported allows toll-free
      dialing from Europe:

      Moderator:                                        Mr. Paul Elder
      Conference ID:                                     1556241
      Local Dial-in number:                              613-787-5018
      Toll-free Dial-in number:                          1 866-842-3549
      International Toll-free Dial-in number:            800-4444-7070
      Norway:                                             00 800-4444-7070
      Information:                                       1 866 224-5844

      However, other's using the number have found that they had to go
      through an operator. If the conference ID is not recognized, try
      again. After the third failure, you will be transfered to an operator
      who will ask for the conference ID (1556241), sponsoring company
      (IBM) and meeting organizer (Paul Elder). Alternatively, pressing *0
      will bring you directly to an operator.

      Paul Elder
      IBM Rational Software
      Tel: +1-613-599-3916
      E-mail: pelder@xxxxxxxxxx

      Oldevik Jon <Jon.Oldevik@xxxxxxxxx>

      2007-11-07 03:52 AM

      Paul Elder/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA, "Olsen Gøran K."
      Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, Richard Gronback
      <richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Bezivin Jean
      <Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx
      SV: MOFScript move to M2T (was: M2T MTL)

      Hi Paul,
      We are in CET (GMT + 1), that is 6 hours before eastern time. A good
      time for us between 14.00 - 16.00 CET, which would be 08.00 - 10.00
      eastern time. Thursday or Friday this week should be good for a call,
      or some time next week.


      Jon Oldevik
      Oslo, NORWAY


      Fra: Paul Elder [mailto:pelder@xxxxxxxxxx]
      Sendt: ti 06.11.2007 20:21
      Til: Olsen Gøran K.; Oldevik Jon
      Kopi: Ed Merks; Richard Gronback; Bezivin Jean; jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx
      Emne: Re: MOFScript move to M2T (was: M2T MTL)

      Jon & Goran:

      First, I'm very interested in welcoming MOFScript to the M2T project.
      I asked the EMO what the process is for the move; the details are
      below. To summarize:

      * Create move review "docuware" explaining the rationale and a move
      * Get Modeling PMC approval
      * Schedule a Move Review with the EMO
      * EMO will want to review committer paper work
      * EMO may need a contribution questionaire for the code.

      Let's schedule a call to start working out the details. I'm in the
      North American Eastern time zone (GMT - 5), and am typically
      available between 0800 and 1600 Eastern. What time would work for

      Paul Elder
      IBM Rational Software
      Tel: +1-613-599-3916
      E-mail: pelder@xxxxxxxxxx

      ----- Forwarded by Paul Elder/Ottawa/IBM on 2007-11-06 01:33 PM -----

      Anne Jacko <emo@xxxxxxxxxxx>

      2007-11-06 12:27 PM

      Paul Elder/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA
      Janet Campbell <janet.campbell@xxxxxxxxxxx>
      Re: Question: What's the component move process?

      Hi Paul (cc Janet),

      Given the circumstances, you will need a Move Review, and you will
      need to submit a CQ for the code (unless Janet, cc'd above, says
      otherwise). I believe the next date for a review call will probably
      be the first Wednesday in December (Dec. 5) but I'm not sure about
      that yet.

      Here's some general information about Move Reviews. Some of it
      doesn't apply to your case (because you're not moving a project and
      not moving between top-level projects), and some of it we have
      already discussed in these emails. The key items for you are
      reviewing committer paperwork and an IP review (CQ) for the code.
      Please let me know if you have any questions--thanks.
      Information for Project Leads about Move Reviews

      For your Move Review, you'll need PMC approval for the move from the
      "sending" PMC and the "receiving" PMC, and the review docuware. In
      some cases you will also need IP clearance for the review--please be
      sure to find out if you need to submit a Contribution Questionnaire
      for moving the code.

      For a Move Review, the docuware describes the reasons for the move,
      and includes the steps you will go through to facilitate the move
      (aka your Move Plan). Please consider these items when writing your
      Move Plan:

       1. Asking the Eclipse Legal department to review committer paperwork
      to see if committers need new agreements
       2. Web page updates (for both top-level projects and for the
       3. Bugzilla changes to reflect new top-level parent project
       4. Newsgroup name change
       5. Mailing list name change

      Here are some general comments about review docuware that might be

      Many people underestimate the time and effort needed to create the
      docuware, so please be sure to allow enough time for this task. The
      "official" due date for the docuware is one week before the review
      call (T - one week). However, the docuware needs to be reviewed by
      the EMO before posting. If you wait until the due date to submit the
      first draft and the EMO requests changes, then you'll probably miss
      your deadline and your review will be postponed. We strongly suggest
      this timeline for submitting docuware:

      T - two weeks: submit first draft via e-mail to EMO

      T - 10 days: submit final draft

      T - one week (due date): EMO posts final version on website before
      announcing review call

      Please note that that we need both a vendor-neutral format file (PDF)
      and the source format that you used to create it; we archive both

      Many projects overlook these items when they do their first draft:

      * page (slide) numbers * copyright notice * EPL notice * IP Log URL

      The docuware should also include the Bugzilla URL for the bug we use
      for comments and voting. The EMO will open this bug when you submit
      the first draft of the docuware and supply the URL for inclusion in
      subsequent versions.

      Retrieved from " <> "

      This page has been accessed 256 times. This page was last modified
      16:53, October 17, 2007.

      Anne Jacko
      emo@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:emo@xxxxxxxxxxx>

      On Nov 6, 2007, at 8:59 AM, Paul Elder wrote:



      - Do you plan to move just code, or will committers be "moving" as
      PE> Code and committers

      - Has a CQ been submitted for this code?
      PE> Code in CVS, but I cannot find any CQs. Original CVS commits were
      12 months ago. In fact, I suspect an IP review might be a good idea.

      - Is the code moving permanently?
      PE> Yes, it would be a permanent move.

      Paul Elder
      IBM Rational Software
      Tel: +1-613-599-3916
      E-mail: pelder@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pelder@xxxxxxxxxx>

      Anne Jacko <emo@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:emo@xxxxxxxxxxx> >

      2007-11-06 11:30 AM

      Paul Elder/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA
      Re: Question: What's the component move process?

      Hi Paul,

      The process for moving code varies with the situation. Let me ask a
      few questions to see what applies in this case:

      - Do you plan to move just code, or will committers be "moving" as

      - Has a CQ been submitted for this code?

      - Is the code moving permanently?


      Anne Jacko
      emo@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:emo@xxxxxxxxxxx>

      On Nov 6, 2007, at 8:02 AM, Paul Elder wrote:


      What is the process for moving a component from one project to
      another. FYI, the component in question is MOFScript, currently in
      the GMT project under Modeling. The suggested new home would be in
      the M2T project (again, under Modeling).

      Thanks in advance,


      Paul Elder
      IBM Rational Software
      Tel: +1-613-599-3916
      E-mail: pelder@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pelder@xxxxxxxxxx>

      ----- Forwarded by Paul Elder/Ottawa/IBM on 2007-11-06 10:51 AM -----

      "Jean Bezivin" <Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
      <mailto:Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
      Sent by: jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:jbezivin@xxxxxxxxx>

      2007-11-05 09:11 AM

      Paul Elder/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA
      "Richard Gronback" <richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx
      <mailto:richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx> >, Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA,
      Goran.K.Olsen@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:Goran.K.Olsen@xxxxxxxxx> , "Oldevik
      Jon" <Jon.Oldevik@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:Jon.Oldevik@xxxxxxxxx> >
      Re: M2T MTL

      Dear Paul, Rich and Ed,

      I got Goran and Jon from Sintef from SINTEF on the phone.

      Yes they would be interested now in moving an updated MOFScript
      from GMT to M2T.

      I put them in copy of this mail and let Paul discuss with them.

      Best regards,


      On 11/1/07, Paul Elder <pelder@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pelder@xxxxxxxxxx>
      > wrote:

      Rich & Jean:

      Yes, Compuware has abandoned MTL.

      And, yes, if the MOFScript group is interested in moving to M2T, they
      would be welcomed.

      If its OK with everyone, I'll take MTL off the M2T page. If, at a
      later date, MOFScript joins M2T, then it should probably join under
      that name.


      Paul Elder
      IBM Rational Software
      Tel: +1-613-599-3916
      E-mail: pelder@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:pelder@xxxxxxxxxx>

      Richard Gronback <richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx
      <mailto:richard.gronback@xxxxxxxxxxx>  >

      2007-11-01 02:25 PM

      Jean Bezivin <Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
      <mailto:Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >
      Paul Elder/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA, Ed Merks/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
      Re: M2T MTL

      Thanks, Jean.

      This may be a good idea, but I'll leave it to Paul to comment on this


      On 11/1/07 11:52 AM, "Jean Bezivin" < Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
      <mailto:Jean.Bezivin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote:

      > Rich,
      > When M2T graduated, I explicitly asked them if they would like to
      join M2T
      > and quit GMT. At that time they preferred to stay in GMT to be able
      > to explore research alternatives to model to text transformations.
      > This was OK to me.
      > Now we may put the question again to them. They may have changed
      their view.
      > The project is lead by SINTEF from Norway.
      > If you wish I may contact them about this possibility.
      > Best regards,
      > Jean
      >> With that, I see MOFScript on the GMT homepage that is also an
      >> implementation of this spec (although each is worded differently
      in their
      >> description than the OMG spec itself).  Perhaps MOFScript can
      graduate to
      >> M2T and fill this slot?  Or, should we just remove the MTL
      reference from
      >> M2T?  Or, is there another explanation that can clear this up for

Richard C. Gronback
Borland Software Corporation
+1 860 227 9215

Back to the top