Skip to main content

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index] [List Home]
Re: [microprofile-wg] MPWG_SCR Approval of April 27th Steering Committee Meeting Minutes. Request vote by May 6th

My comments are inline.
On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 12:37 AM Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I like your follow up Kevin. Thanks for taking on each item. :) 
You are correct about the 2 weeks, I added the 2 weeks' notice for all Steering committee meetings b/c that is what we agreed for such a notices on the group. If it doesn't apply for notifications coming from the EMO, lets discuss why not.  I am -1 on that.  1 week notice, given vacations, deadlines, etc,  is not sufficient time, IMO. 

Personally, I think a 1 week notice is reasonable. For WG, there are two reps etc, so that they can cover for each other. Besides, I don't think adding an extra week will make much difference in terms of the reasons you listed. If we are not careful, this ragid restriction simply slows us making decent progress.
Now, we ought to be careful when we say that the MPWG is negligent onit s patent license. That is not correct. 
The Jakarta EE WG has been under the EF since Q1 2018 and still today it has not defined its Patent status. The soft Compatible Patent you mentioned is there and I don't even know how it got there. If you do, please show me the minutes. I worked closely in the Jakarta Trademarks and I don't have it anywhere. 

With this follow up, I wonder how comfortable are others to even request a "soft-vote" for themselves and others on either of the current choices? There is no supporting information about either option. 
In 2 weeks, we ought to discuss this topic btw ourselves and then, only then, see if that soft-vote is welcomed. Ignorance and not choosing to buy ourselves time to educate ourselves is not ideal.   We - those of us who can, should start documenting the pros and cons on each option. Already a document exists in the community drive yet no banwith to tackle it yet. 

All of WG are legal entities. They ought to have some support when it comes to legal matters. Right? For anything related to legal, I think it is better off each WG consults their own lawyers to figure out their decision etc. Personally, I would be very careful with the document with cons and pros as it might not be the same cons/pros for different entities, besides these cons/pros might need to be drafted or verified by lawyers. Therefore, I think each WG might be better off to do their own research and make decisions based on their own situation.

My 2cents

Thank you, John for helping us update the minutes before there are any votes. Maybe we drop the current request for a vote and submit a new vote with updated minutes. ?

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 3:22 PM Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Overall, I think your minutes were pretty accurate.  Thanks for doing this!
  • I agree with Amelia that we should probably identify that the first 15 min was used to discuss the recording vs non-recording of meetings.
  • I do not agree that we need a two week notice for non-recording of meetings.  I think one week is plenty sufficient.  But, we didn't agree on a length of time.  We just indicated that some notice is required (as John documented).
  • BTW, Scott pointed out that any member of the steering committee can request the non-recording of a meeting (or a portion thereof) without any notice.
  • I like the specification of the Goal of the presentation.  We as a working group need to decide on one of two patent licenses -- Implementation Patent or Compatible Patent.
  • Jakarta EE currently does operate under the Compatible Patent license.  The Jakarta EE WG is currently discussing these options and how they might apply to the various Jakarta EE projects, but Jakarta EE currently operates with the Compatible Patent license.  (Since this was discussed during the meeting, I see no problem with leaving this in the minutes.)
  • Paul asked for a straw poll just to get a reading on the MP working group.  If the straw poll shows a definite favorite, then maybe the formal vote will be easier.  If we're split on the straw poll, then more investigation and discussion will be required before the formal vote.  That's how I read the request for a straw poll.
  • Since we (MPWG) are negligent on selecting this patent license, I'm sure that EF does not want this to be dragged out.  We should start with this straw poll idea and then decide on our plan of attack at our next meeting in two weeks.

Kevin Sutter
STSM, Jakarta EE and MicroProfile architect @ IBM
e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx     Twitter:  @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)    

Part-time schedule: Tue, Wed, Thu (off on Mon and Fri)

From:        Amelia Eiras <aeiras@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:        Microprofile WG discussions <microprofile-wg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date:        04/29/2021 16:32
Subject:        [EXTERNAL] Re: [microprofile-wg] MPWG_SCR Approval of April 27th Steering Committee Meeting Minutes. Request vote by May 6th
Sent by:        "microprofile-wg" <microprofile-wg-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>

Thank you, John for sending the draft minutes for review & follow up. 

Recommended the follow adjustements to the minutes:
  • time: Presentation and soft Q&A took the 1hr, not 30mins
  • Recording issue: The EMO would have no presented the topic if call was recorded.  for 15 minute the members discussed issues with lack of recordings and concern about the lack of it. It was agreed that if any EMO presentation cannot be recorded, the MPWG must be made aware 2 weeks before the call. 
  • Topic: the EMO Presented to the MPWG a 20 pg Patent Licences in the Context of the EFSP. 
  • Goal: to enable the MPWG to choose 1 of the currently 2 patent choices under the EF:  Implementation or Compatible Patent
  • Additional linkunder minutes resources: EF Intelectual Property Policy  needs to be included. 
About the 2 patent options:
An efficient analysis of Implementation Patent with its Pros & Cons is necessary and was recommended in the call.
An efficient analysis of Compatible Patent with its Pros & Cons is necessary and was recommended in the call.

Been years, yet I don't believe the Jakarta WG voted nor chose its patent.  
I recommend the completely removal of the Jakarta EE patent mention from this minutes.  It is not an actual example of past work on EF Patent selection.   

Straw poll request: We actually didn't agree to vote on it in 2 weeks. At least not without discussion (analysis)  first. 

When providing examples of other Communities and their current work on Patents, can we please use the actual links or videos that shows those communities conversations.  Hearsay ought to be avoided in all topics, specially legal. 

-- Thanks, 
Amelia Eiras

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 11:24 PM John Clingan <jclingan@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Meeting Minutes link, contents pasted below, and pdf copy attached.

Meeting Minute Updates
  • Link to twitter picture added.
  • Link to presentation added.
  • I added bulleted discussion points. I did the best I could with what I recalled since we were petty busy discussing and not taking live notes.


MicroProfile Steering Committee Meeting - April 27th, 2021

  1. DO NOT EDIT AGENDA. This is the responsibility of the meeting moderator with input from the steering committee and community. Agenda items should be discussed in the mailing list/forum or in prior Steering Committee meetings first.
  2. Prefer comments occur in mailing lists/forums.
  3. Document editing is enabled for community to add themselves to list of community contributors during call

Tweeted pic here, recordinghere, meeting minutes folder here

Meeting Attendees
Steering Committee
(Quorum = 6)
(Name, organization)
Atlanta JUG - Summers Pittman, Vincent Mayers
Fujitsu - Kenji Kazamura
IBM - Kevin Sutter, Emily Jiang
iJUG - 
Jelastic - Ruslan Synytsky, Tetiana Fydorenchyk
Garden State JUG - Chandra Guntur, Michael Redlich
Oracle - Ed Bratt, Dmitry Kornilov
Payara - Rudy De Busscher
Red Hat - John Clingan, Roberto Cortez
Tomitribe - David Blevins, Amelia Eiras
Committer Member: Edwin Derks

Eclipse Foundation
Paul Buck 
Sharon Corbett
Ivar Grimstad
Tanja Obradovic

Agenda Item
Past meeting minutes approvalApproved via microprofile-wg email thread.
Business since last Steering Committee Meeting
Current ItemsMicroProfile Patent Options Discussion
Limited to 30 minutes since sharing time on the Live Hangout
  • Presentation
  • Discussion
    • Compatible Implementation Policy - protects against fragmentation and patents become a legal enforcement approach to compatibility. The Spark Plug community discussed this being a barrier to adoption.
    • Patent license - implementations that do not have to 100% pass the TCK. This approach favors adoption over compliance. Whether or not an implementation is compatible becomes a legal question.
    • Only one patent license policy applies per spec project. MicroProfile specifications are managed under a single project. Theoretically, if MicroProfile split specs into separate projects, each project could choose its patent policy with approval by the Steering Committee.
    • Is there a 3rd option - Collective Defense? Currently not an option.
    • Paul noted that Jakarta EE working group chose the compatible implementation license and that the Spark Plug working group is in discussion on IP patent policy.
    • Paul recommended a straw poll vote to understand where we stand as a working group. We agreed to give it two weeks. This would be followed up by a formal vote on one of the two (draft) resolutions outlined in the presentation.
    • We agreed that Steering Committee members must be notified of non-recorded meetings ahead of time.
Next Steering Committee callSee MicroProfile Calendar
Parking Lot

Compatibility Certification Request Format

microprofile-wg mailing list

To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
microprofile-wg mailing list
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit

microprofile-wg mailing list
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
microprofile-wg mailing list
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit


Back to the top