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Re: [m2e-dev] [m2e-users] moving m2e to java7 past kepler sr0

On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 03:41:59PM -0400, Igor Fedorenko wrote:
I don't know how JBossTools releases are aligned with Eclipse and m2e
releases, but I'd like to see java version usage breakdown for the
m2e version 1.3.1 today and then get the same stats for 1.4 around
Kepler/SR1. This should give us better idea how popular java6 still is
with users who are actually likely to upgrade to 1.5.

Sorry for the delay, but had to get past Red Hat Summit before having time.

I've created https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtaoS0grMLjSdGhzWldEb2hNa293MktKRE4zZTBMY1E&usp=sharing

The first page on this spreadsheet shows Java version in columns and Eclipe JEE EPP packaged on the left. (I took Java EPP since it is ~83% of our userbase)

1.2 = Galileo
1.3 = Helios
1.4 = Indigo
1.5 = Juno
2.0 = Kepler

The period is wed/thur last week.

And yes Java 7 is definitely increasing on Juno, but still not a massive majority.

We'll need more samples to get trend data instead of just singular values which in Google Analytics is not something to rely on because it samples its data.

/max


--
Regards,
Igor

On 2013-05-30 3:26 PM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:

----- Original Message -----
Does RedHat make stats on m2e version vs java version usage publicly
available?

I can give you the data yes - what kind do you want ?

I dont have exact m2e version, I have which eclipse/jbosstools version with and what java version.

/max

--
Regards,
Igor

On 2013-05-30 9:51 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:


----- Original Message -----
No one can predict exact java6 usage year+ from today.

Java7 syntax makes developers more productive, so yes, it is important,
both for developers and for end users.

I know - I wish I could move to Java 7 too like many runtimes are; but tools is a different situation - especially core things like m2e is.

This is really chicken-and-egg problem, more products stay on java6,
less motivation there is for users to upgrade.

Whether this justifies move to java7, I don't know yet, but I certainly
don't plan to wait until the last user migrates off java6.

I never said you had to wait for the *last* user to migrate off, just when *most* has and 1.6 is a minority.

That has not happened yet and probably won't before end of 2014 if looking
at the
trend.

/max


-- Regards, Igor

On 2013-05-30 7:51 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:


----- Original Message -----
I don't plan to downcompile m2e to java6 even if this is supported, I
plan to require java7 when running m2e.

Sorry my french but this is seriously disturbing.

Eclipse Project is on Java 1.5
http://www.eclipse.org/projects/project-plan.php?projectid=eclipse

Eclipse EPP (where m2e is included in) requires Java 1.6 or higher too
(https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=401310)

Is it really that important to you to use new Java 7 syntax to break such
a useful compatibility as still running on Java 6 ?

I find that worse reason than "my IT department is too retarded to allow
java7" or as there actually is data for:
"majority of your users runs with Java 6"

/max

--
Regards,
Igor

On 2013-05-30 7:37 AM, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:


----- Original Message -----
I totally agree with the change to Java7. just because when using
Java7
you can still produce binaries to the target system in Java6 (if were
required).

If the binaries can run on Java 6 then that is all fine - but I read the request that Java 7 would be required to run.

People that don't want to change and use new features that only can be
provided by new Java version should stay with the old version. The
same
will happen for teams that would like to use new Jetty 9 and its news
features.

Jetty 8 and 9 can coexist in eclipse - m2e old version and new cannot.

Very different things.

Most people that I know and use Mac is moving to Java7 due the
security
issues reported with Java6. Btw, Mountain Lion didn't come with Java
and
to install one you should use Java 7.

Most people I know are also on Java 7, but that is not the users that there are the most of.

This is called observer bias and something to be vary aware of and why
we
collect actual user data instead of looking at the people we actually
meet
in our day to day
work which tend to be years ahead of the main user adoption.

/max




On 30/05/13 07:00, Martin Lippert wrote:
Hey!

Thanks, Max, for the heads-up here.

Yes, I can confirm very similar numbers from both the Spring Tool
Suite and the Groovy/Grails Tool Suite. We have about 55% running on
Java6. This number is even a bit higher on Mac (about 60%).

I also share the motivation for moving to Java7, but it would cut off
something between 50% and 60% of our users (roughly speaking). So
please don't exclude them from new m2e versions that soon...!!! :-)

Thanks!!!
-Martin



On 30.05.13 11:51, Max Rydahl Andersen wrote:
I've pinged Martin Lippert from STS who confirmed similar numbers
but
he'll follow on this thread with the exact numbers.

----- Original Message -----
I'd like to propose moving m2e to require java7 execution
environment
after Kepler SR0 is out. I am getting really addicted to
try-with-resources syntax [1], and with java6 past it's eol [2]
already,
I see little/no reasons to stick with this version any longer.

Does anyone have a good reasons to stay with java 6 past this
coming
June? ("my IT department is too retarded to allow java7" is
probably
not
a good reason).

[1]
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/exceptions/tryResourceClose.html

[2] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html

--
Regards,
Igor
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