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Re: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule
Firstly, let me tell you I am delighted you chose to reply. That said, knowing you it is not a surprise and is indeed a relief.

If there is still things people can do to speed the process along, let's please work on it together. If needed, let's take it offline. I will be happy to spread the word on how people can help and I am sure there are people out there that will be happy to pitch in too given how important this work is. If it makes overall sense, I can also pitch in some work myself.

Can you comment on the concerns around getting the legal stuff squared away? If there is anything that can be done there, let's please work on that too (also offline if necessary and helpful). Fairly or unfairly there is a perception that "nothing can be done" before the legal stuff is taken care of. This view is especially prevalent with the major vendors, where a majority of the work to move things forward must inevitably come from as the rest of us have day jobs (as you know).

Again, very happy to hear from you. Respect always.

On 8/5/2018 3:59 PM, dmitry.kornilov@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Below is my personal opinion.

You cannot release changed APIs, but you can do many other things. You are allowed to change APIs on GitHub, you can work on implementations to adopt updated APIs, you can design some TCK tests prototypes. It's needed if you want progress the spec anyway. You will be able to release it immediately after the trademark agreement between Oracle and the Eclipse Foundation is in place.

On the other hand, the priority is releasing the first version of Jakarta EE platform compatible with Java EE 8. What you are trying to do is the next step. It sounds like a wrong priority. Oracle is working hard on transferring projects, submitting CQs, setting up CI/CD pipelines. Eclipse helps us a lot, but I don't see much community help. Are we working together or you just waiting until the hard part of work is done?

-- Dmitry



От: Ivar Grimstad
Отправлено: воскресенье, 5 августа, 9:04
Тема: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule
Кому: jaxrs developer discussions


Hi,

I think I can speak for the entire PMC that we share your concern! 
The lack of progress is a topic vividly discussed in all the Jakarta EE committees as well. 
Right now there is not much we can do other than voicing our concern in all channels available and hope that the agreement between Oracle and Eclipse Foundation can pass the legal red-tape going on.

Ivar

On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 8:18 AM Rudy De Busscher <rdebusscher@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I think we should address our concerns about the progress/planning of the transition more formally to the PMC (and beyond?).
They (and we also) realize that it is a lot of work and takes some time.
But the fact that there is still no agreement on the use of javax package name is worrisome. What good is it that code is at Eclipse Foundation when we can't maintain/extend it? Then it would be better that there was no transition at all. (no false hope created)

We should be able to get started with the future work on the specs after the summer!

Rudy

On Sat, 4 Aug 2018 at 19:19, reza_rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
What do others think about just leaving this here? Just a random email thread with a handful of people is one thing, but a formal request with some detailed rationale I think is a very different beast.

Let's remember, the stakes are high here. The consequences are that everything that so many of us have worked towards for so many years could be weakened beyond a point of no return.

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 8/4/18 8:54 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: 'jaxrs developer discussions' <jaxrs-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule

I doubt that it is the EF which causes the delay, and I doubt the other party will speed up just because the PMC members want them to. But certainly it is worth a try. They all read this. Let's see what happens.
 
Until then I would keep the preliminary schedule as-is, since it is *preliminary* already. Once Oracle made up her mind when they are willing to let us publish new features, we can overhaul the plan and make it final.
 
-Markus
 
 
From: jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of reza_rahman
Sent: Freitag, 3. August 2018 20:11
To: jaxrs developer discussions Onc
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule
 
What would be best is to put together some well thought out documentation on what the factual basis of the concerns and expectations are. Since JAX-RS and Java EE Security seem to be the only specifications with any sign of life, maybe the concerns get started in this context. There was some sign of life in JMS but that seems to have died off completely for a while.
 
The key is I think getting the major Jakarata EE stakeholders including the Eclipse Foundation behind these concerns and getting some sort of real resource/timeline commitments. If the transfer process keeps dragging on, it will just compound the problem that was created in the Java EE 7 and Java EE 8 timeframes.
 
I think we should try this within the Eclipse Foundation framework first and involve the broader community such as the Java EE Guardians as a last resort if all efforts to get some kind of commitments fails.
 
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
 
-------- Original message --------
From: arjan tijms <arjan.tijms@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 8/3/18 1:53 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: jaxrs developer discussions <jaxrs-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule
 
I've to say I'm starting to get slightly worried. The lack of any progress, or even more the lack about details regarding this progress is worrisome. Like Markus, I'd also love to see a minor version of EE Security/Soteria released before long, but that seems difficult if not impossible at the moment.
 
I appreciate all the hard work both Oracle and Eclipse have been doing, and I fully understand it takes time to vet and clean all the code that still has to be transferred (like HK2 and GlassFish itself). But specifically the fact that there's no clarity still about usage of the javax.* packages is troublesome.
 
 
 
 
 
 
On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 7:44 PM Reza Rahman <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I agree the pace seems very slow and no one seems to know what the exact timelines are. Maybe this is a concern that should be escalated to Jakarta EE stakeholders? Keeping pushing MicroProfile only goes so far while competitors just keep rolling forward. Java EE was already behind, how much catch up will Jakarta EE need to do?

On 8/3/2018 1:23 PM, arjan tijms wrote:
Hi,
 
Seeing how things are currently progressing I think targeting spec releases or even API releases of JAX-RS (those are technically not quite the same anymore) for 2018 is quite challenging.
 
We'd still need the TCK transferred, clarity about the spec documents and the agreement over the javax.* packages. Even the Jakarta EE spec process itself is still being worked on. At the rate things are currently going I'd be surprised really if fall 2019 for the first new spec/api release (JAX-RS 2.2) is possible.
 
I'd like to propose setting JAX-RS 2.2 tentatively for end of 2019. We can always move it back if the transfer process unexpectedly speeds up, but at the moment I think that's a more realistic roadmap. I.e. better underpromise and overdeliver than the other way around.
 
Thoughts?
 
Kind regards,
Arjan
 
 
 
 
On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 7:42 PM Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I think Java 8 is very important still for JAX-RS 2.x, but not important at all for 3.x anymore.
-Markus
 
From: jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Santiago Pericas-Geertsen
Sent: Montag, 30. Juli 2018 16:10
To: jaxrs developer discussions
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule
 
 
 
On Jul 29, 2018, at 3:12 AM, Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 
Regarding Java 11 I actually meant "Compiles using Java 11", i. e. people cannot load that JARs anymore on a Java 8 VM. So it might be a big deal if people must stay compatible with Java 8 VMs.
 
 I think Java 8 compatibility is the crux of this discussion. Is that still important? I think JAX-RS 3.0 would be the right time to drop Java 8 compatibility in preparation for future work.
 
— Santiago
 
 
In fact I constructed the roadmap around what the committers are able to deliver, not just what users would be interested in. In the end, someone has to do it, and we're no only talking about API, we talk about pushing out releases for all existing products, as the EF does not allow us to do an API without at least one fully compliant product per release.
 
-Markus
 
Sent: Samstag, 28. Juli 2018 18:38
To: jaxrs developer discussions
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule
 
JPMS support and Java 11 support are somewhat separate issues. Generally I don't think there are any API changes to consume for JAX-RS from Java 10 or Java 11. It is really just a matter of compatibility testing, which is not that big a deal.
 
Personally I think JPMS support for JAX-RS alone is a relatively minor feature. I imagine most implementations won't have much trouble doing this and perhaps JAX-RS alone supporting JPMS is not that interesting to users either.
 
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
 
-------- Original message --------
From: Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Date: 7/28/18 5:59 AM (GMT-05:00) 
To: 'jaxrs developer discussions' <jaxrs-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule 
 
Committers,
 
thanks for sharing your ideas!
 
I have tried to add most of it into an updated preliminary schedule:
 
LINK
 
Please be so kind and check this new plan. It now contains more releases in the same time frame so I could add more of your requested features. Now before we can vote on it, we need another round of feedback. In particular, the following questions arise:
 
- From a purely formal standpoint, can we do JPMS and Java 9 in a minor version increase or does that enforce a major version increase?
 
- Do we really only want Java 9 in 2019, or shall we directly jump on Java 11 in half a year from now?
 
Thanks for your feedback!
 
-Markus
 
 
From: Markus KARG [mailto:markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Samstag, 21. Juli 2018 14:35
To: 'jaxrs developer discussions'
Subject: RE: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule
 
Guillermo,
 
yes, if we remove something in 3.0 then we MUST deprecate it in 2.2 or 2.1.1. But this has to be voted.
 
IIRC we have not yet voted about any particular content of neither 3.0 nor 2.2 nor 2.1.1, so I just picked what I understood to be common sense of the various discussions so far.
 
Feel free to open an issue wrt deprecating @Context and set the linked milestone to 3, which effectively opens the possibility for reviewing and  voting.
 
-Markus
 
From: jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Guillermo González de Agüero
Sent: Samstag, 21. Juli 2018 14:16
To: jaxrs developer discussions
Subject: Re: [jaxrs-dev] [Discuss] Initial Roadmap / Preliminary Release Schedule
 
Hi Markus,
 
Thanks for getting it written.
 
Does 3.0 imply *removing* @Context and other related stuff. If so, those features should be deprecated in a previous version to give users a chance to migrate.
 
El sáb., 21 jul. 2018 13:50, Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> escribió:
Committers,
 
I have hacked down a very short initial roadmap https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/jaxrs-api/wiki/Roadmap and would love to discuss it with you. :-)
 
-Markus
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