The only way that "Compatible Implementations MAY additionally certify and support Java SE 8" is if the TCK is compiled to target Java 8.
If the TCK is compiled to target Java 11, then it is impossible for any implementation to certify on Java 8 as the TCK wont run on Java 8.
A TCK compiled to target Java 8 can run on Java 11 (regular CI testing on Java 11 can confirm this).
We could still require that "compatible implementations of the Jakarta EE 9 Web Profile and Full Profile MUST certify compatibility on Java SE 11" using the TCK (which targets Java 8 but is known to run correctly on Java 11).
--
BJ Hargrave
Senior Technical Staff Member, IBM // office: +1 386 848 1781
OSGi Fellow and CTO of the OSGi Alliance // mobile: +1 386 848 3788
hargrave@xxxxxxxxxx
----- Original message -----
From: "Kevin Sutter" <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: "jakartaee-platform developer discussions" <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "JakartaEE Spec Project Leadership discussions" <jakartaee-spec-project-leads@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc:
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [jakartaee-platform-dev] Java 8 vs Java 11 Compatibility requirements
Date: Tue, Jul 7, 2020 17:30
Hi,
This topic has come up on our TCK mailing list (https://www.eclipse.org/lists/jakartaee-tck-dev/msg00785.html). The basic issue is that we *may* have a mismatch on our stated Java support statements and what can or will be delivered. I'd first like to explain the problem, and then suggest a couple of alternatives, and then ask for feedback. We need to make a decision by the end of this week (July 10). I'm moving this discussion to the Platform and Spec Project Leads mailing lists to get a wider audience.
The Jakarta EE 9 Release Plan (https://eclipse-ee4j.github.io/jakartaee-platform/jakartaee9/JakartaEE9ReleasePlan) states this:
Java SE Version
For inclusion in Jakarta EE 9, specification’s APIs MUST be compiled at the Java SE 8 source level. However, compatible implementations of the Jakarta EE 9 Web Profile and Full Profile MUST certify compatibility on Java SE 11. Compatible Implementations MAY additionally certify and support Java SE 8.
Due to this "dual" compatibility requirement, the TCK is being built at the Java SE 8 byte code level.
Due to the stated MUST requirement of certifying on Java SE 11, Glassfish was going to move to being built at the Java SE 11 byte code level.
But, if we continue down that Java 11 only path for Glassfish, then we would not have an environment where we could prove compatibility with the Java SE 8 runtime. And, that would prevent us from successfully delivering Jakarta EE 9 since we need to demonstrate both the Required and Optional aspects of the Platform. (This is assuming that MUST==Required and MAY==Optional.)
We have been discussing a couple of alternatives.... Both of which would require an update to the Release Plan. We're looking for feedback to help figure out which approach provides the least impact and best experience for our customers.
Alternative 1:
TCK and Glassfish would be built at the Java SE 8 byte code level. The runtime for the execution of the TCK would be Java SE 11. We would requireJava 11 for certifying compatibility for Jakarta EE 9. We would notrequire compatibility testing with the Java SE 8 runtime. We would still have TCK Jenkins jobs running with Java SE 8 so that progress could be monitored, but proving that certification works with Java SE 8 would not be a requirement for releasing Jakarta EE 9.
(To be totally open, this was the alternative that I presented to the Steering Committee today. I was looking for a means of delivering Jakarta EE 9 without compromising the Jakarta EE 9 release plan too much. Basically, looking to soften the Optional requirement of the Java SE 8 runtime. During the course of the discussion, we came up with Alternative 2...)
Alternative 2:
TCK and Glassfish would still be built at the Java SE 8 byte code level. But, we would flip the release plan requirements... The runtime for the execution of the TCK would be Java SE 8. We would require Java 8 for certifying compatibility for Jakarta EE 9. We would not requirecompatibility testing with the Java SE 11 runtime. We would still have TCK Jenkins jobs running with Java SE 11 so that progress could be monitored, but proving that certification works with Java SE 11 would not be a requirement for releasing Jakarta EE 9.
(Background... Everything we released for Milestone 1 was with Java SE 8. We're already well on our way with the TCK effort. Moving Glassfish to Java SE 11 could disrupt our progress. Granted, we can hope for the best, but chances are moving to Java 11 will set us back a bit. And, since Java SE 8's Extended EOS date continues to move out (it's actually further out than Java SE 11), then maybe it makes more sense to stick with the proven environment.)
Note:
The subset of Java SE features that were dropped by Java 11 will still be provided via Jakarta EE 9. So, nothing else changes from a Release Plan content viewpoint. We're just looking for ways to mitigate some of the risks associated with certifying Glassfish with both Java SE 8 and Java SE 11.
Feedback welcome! Thanks!
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect @ IBM
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
