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Re: [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] Compromise for approval of Jakarta EE 8 specification projects
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I don't agree that
a final implementation has to be available immediately. That was
the Glassfish model (for the most part). But, it doesn't have to
continue like that. We've had excellent results with MicroProfile.
We provide a link to some "workable" implementation for
immediate experimentation and verification. The real, final implementations
are produced at a later time by the various vendors and development communities.
That model has worked quite well.
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutterFrom:
Bill
Shannon <bill.shannon@xxxxxxxxxx>To:
Jakarta
specification committee <jakarta.ee-spec.committee@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>, Scott Stark <sstark@xxxxxxxxxx>Date:
06/06/2019
12:50 PMSubject:
[EXTERNAL]
Re: [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] Compromise for approval of Jakarta EE 8
specification projects
At a minimum it needs to be a distinguished
and stable release of some sort. It definitely can't be "last
Thursday's nightly build".
When the spec is finalized, we want to encourage the community to download
the compatible implementation(s) and start using them immediately.
If there is no "final" implementation available, that's going
to discourage people from using it, and decrease the value of a final release.
I would rather delay the spec approval until a final release is available,
and continue to make "release candidate" or "proposed final
draft" versions available for testing until then.
Kevin Sutter wrote on 6/6/19 5:47 AM:Agree, Scott.
It doesn't have to be final. But, it does have to be accessible
via some open-source repo (milestone driver, rc driver, some type of defined
driver).
---------------------------------------------------
Kevin Sutter
STSM, MicroProfile and Jakarta EE architect
e-mail: sutter@xxxxxxxxxx Twitter: @kwsutter
phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter
From: Scott
Stark <sstark@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: Jakarta
specification committee <jakarta.ee-spec.committee@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Kevin
Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/05/2019
10:34 AM
Subject: [EXTERNAL]
Re: [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] Compromise for approval of Jakarta EE 8
specification projects
I don’t agree that a final release of a compatible implementation should
be required for a spec to be approved. The point of at least one compatible
implementation is to validate that the spec can be implemented. All of
the window dressing of a final release has nothing to do with implementation
details.
On Jun 4, 2019, at 6:30 PM, mdenicola@xxxxxxxxxxxwrote:Personally
I think a final release should be required, but it's a good discussion
topic.
MikeD
From: jakarta.ee-spec.committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx<jakarta.ee-spec.committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
On Behalf Of Bill Shannon
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2019 3:45 PM
To: Jakarta specification committee <jakarta.ee-spec.committee@xxxxxxxxxxx>;
Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [jakarta.ee-spec.committee] Compromise for approval of
Jakarta EE 8 specification projects
Kevin
Sutter wrote on 6/4/19 1:05 PM:
Hi Bill,
We're in a classic chicken-and-the-egg situation... It's difficult
to have any Compatible Implementation that uses the APIs that are being
submitted for review. We have this situation with every MicroProfile
release. We require a Compatible Implementation for the Release Review,
but it doesn't have to be a final GA product. It has to be an accessible
open-source project that demonstrates the functionality defined by the
Spec and API and it passes the defined TCK. But, it doesn't have
to be a final X.Y release. At
the JCP we required the implementation to be released as a "final"
product soon after the spec was approved. (It usually took hours
to weeks after the approval to release the implementation.) Allowing
some slop between the spec approval and the implementation release solved
the chicken-and-egg problem.
I guess we need to decide what we require for the JESP. I was assuming
it would be the same. I don't think it would be appropriate to approve
the spec with only a "day in the life" of an implementation that
may never be recreated. Perhaps a final release is not required,
but it seems like it should at least be some sort of distinguished milestone
release. Personally I think a final release should be required, but
it's a good discussion topic.
What is even more unique with this Jakarta EE 8 release is that we want
to make a big splash with this initial release. When we announce
Jakarta EE 8, we want to also announce that we have several Compatible
Implementations -- Eclipse Glassfish, OpenLiberty, and Wildfly (at least,
maybe there are others). So, how can we accomplish this when the
Specs, APIs, and even the TCKs are still going through the final Reviews?It's
not our plan to hold up this release until other compatible implementations
are available. If you think we need to do that, you should bring
that up at the Steering Committee, although that would clearly blow our
schedule.
If other implementations can finish in the same time as the existing schedule,
that would be great! Clearly the TCKs have to be "frozen"
at the start of the release review, so that gives other implementations
some time to ensure that they pass the TCKs. If they can show that
they pass the frozen-but-not-yet-approved TCKs at the end of the review
period, I think we should consider them compatible implementations as part
of the release. And of course if they pass the finalized TCKs shortly
after the approval, we should add them to the list of compatible implementations.
If other implementations are intending to be compatible at the current
release date, that would be helpful to know ASAP. That might require
additional resources to support usage of the Jakarta EE TCKs and we should
plan accordingly.
We do have to remember that the TCK is testing functionality, not whether
the proper license and/or javadocs have been updated.We
expect the Specification Committee to be checking that the submitted javadocs
include the correct license, spec name, etc. as part of the specification
approval process.
So, technically, once these CIs pass the TCK (with or without the updated
APIs), then they should be ready for the Release Review and the eventual
Announce. Yes,
other compatible implementations don't need to depend on these API jar
files.
But, I do get your point about having to test these updated APIs before
releasing them. I thought that was part of the TCK testing that Dmitry
and Ed were going over this morning?Yes,
it is. Every changed artifact needs to be tested before release.
Every API jar file will be updated and released. Some implementations
might also be updated and released.
During our PMC call just prior to the Steering Committee call, Dmitry explained
that the individual API TCKs would need to be executed to ensure they are
compliant. These individual tests would not be comprehensive though
-- we should still do some testing that they work throughout the whole
TCK bucket. All
of the existing EE4J implementations need to be tested with the new Jakarta
EE TCKs since those are the implementations that we will include in the
approval process as compatible implementations.
Maybe we need all of the Compliant Implementations to re-run the TCK with
the proper APIs during the Review period? Given that the individual
API TCKs were run prior to the review, and the CIs would already passed
the required TCKs (minus the API updates), maybe re-running the CIs with
the updated APIs would be sufficient at this time? Maybe this is
the gist of your compromise? Yes,
we just need to do something to ensure that the updated API jar files still
match the spec and no unexpected changes or errors have crept in. Again,
we're not expecting to include these updated API jar files in most of the
Compatible Implementations at EE4J for Jakarta EE 8, and no other Compatible
Implementation is required to use them (although they can if they want
to).
> We need to update all of
the javadocs for all of the APIs to use the new
specification names and to use the Eclipse Foundation Specification License.
Since we're actively discussing how far-reaching the acronym usage limitation
is, I'll leave the extent of the javadoc updates out of this discussion
and just focus on the requirements of the Release Review and the Compatible
Implementations.
Even
ignoring the acronyms, most of the javadocs will include the name of their
own spec (which is changing), and many will include references to JSRs
(which need to be removed or replaced). The javadoc updates may not
be extensive, but they include at least the new license, and in most cases
will include some other required changes.
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