Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [jakartaee-platform-dev] DISCUSS: resolve mat

[Emily Jiang <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

fyi - bring this to all of the original mailing list for sync purposes.

On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 3:06 PM Emily Jiang <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I am not sure why it is a problem for EE 11. Up to now, we have a diagram for the relationship of the profiles shown below. It is nice and clear on a release by release basis. There was no generalisation whatsoever. EE 11 will have the same pattern. As for EE 12, it might be similar but we can discuss them in due course.

As for the certification for core profile, web profile and platform, the spec itself would mention the required TCKs. The API packages do not influence the TCK requirements.

Therefore, I don't think this discussion should impact EE 11 releases, not even for Platform release. We can discuss in EE 12 timeframe to see whether we need to release the Core Profile at all if MicroProfile comes to Jakarta EE, which is a different matter.

https://jakarta.ee/release/10/images/jakarta-ee-10-platform.svg

Thanks

Emily

On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 1:59 PM Alasdair Nottingham via jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I would tend to agree that this can be deferred for the reasons outlined by Ivar.

One thing that concerns me with reverting this change is that it was made in the interests of making things easier for developers who are using these APIs. I think making Jakarta EE harder for developers to use would be a backward step. One of the reasons that Java EE suffered vs other ecosystems was because it was perceived that Java EE was harder to use for developers. A lot of things have moved on from those days, but we still need to be focussed on making sure things are easy for users. 

Ivar says these are for developer convenience and aren’t normative so given that I do think we should be more focussed on making sure they are convenient over strict alignment with specifications. Currently everything in core profile is also in web profile so I would think developer convenience is more important than spec alignment. If core profile and web profile were to diverge in future then I think we would need to reconsider this, but I think that is a problem for the future, not today.

Alasdair

On Mar 26, 2025, at 6:41 AM, Ed Burns via jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Comments inline.

On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 11:11 AM Ed Burns EB via jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

EB> Here is one reason where I hope we can defer concrete action until

EB> we reach step 2:

EB> The set of artifacts we are producing for 1. is disjoint from the

EB> set of artifacts we are producing for 3.

From: jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf ofOn Wednesday, March 26, 2025 at 11:30 Ivar Grimstad IG via jakartaee-platform-dev <jakartaee-platform-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>said:

IG> I would like to point out, as Ed Bratt did in the Steering

IG> Committee yesterday when this topic came up, that the API jar is

IG> NOT a normative artifact. It is a bi-product when the Javadoc and

IG> signature tests are generated, and distributed to Maven Central

IG> for convenience. Taking that into consideration, there is no need

IG> for any actions at this point.

Thanks Ivar for reinforcing my reason to have hope that we can defer concrete action on CoreProfileWebProfile until we reach "2. [Happening after APPROVED for 1.] Continue to resolve matters for the Platform Profile TCK -- Platform Profile ballot satisfaction version."

In the spirit of Reza's request:

"I am unconvinced this was done through adequate deliberation and consensus

(that is, votes to support a truly majority stakeholder decision). More

than anything else, I want to ensure that in fact has happened or

happens soon."

I want to first get consensus that the answer to the original yes/no question posed in this thread "QUESTION: is it possible for us to defer concrete action on CoreProfileWebProfile until we reach step 2 above?" is yes.

Once we get that consensus, we can proceed with mitigation efforts for CoreProfileWebProfile.

Thanks,

Ed

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Thanks
Emily

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Thanks
Emily